Asked to leave a fireworks stand...

[dobeman]

today's "fireworks" are a waste of money anyway. In the old days, you'd set them off and look up. Now - neighbors clustered on the street staring at the ground.

 

[Redcap]

today's "fireworks" are a waste of money anyway. In the old days, you'd set them off and look up. Now - neighbors clustered on the street staring at the ground.

You must go to the wrong fireworks stands...

 

[Joe13]

Yea y'all in OR got the short straw on that one... People taking video and lighting off mortars as their neighbors house burns up cuz they are evil aka illegal.

Dobeman, you have a standing invite at my place in Clark County for future 4th's - it's like a war zone (sound wise) and more to look at in the sky then one could ever hope to see (I recomend setting up and looking in one direction to avoid whiplash).

Still it's not quite the same as growing up with bottle rockets and m80's in TX but mortars can be fun too.

 

[NWGlockgal]

Yup, one of those stands in the parking lot.

Then I would say that unless the store that owned the property the stand was located on had a "no guns" policy he had no right to ask you to leave.

 

[bnsaibum]

Not to put too fine a point on this, but if the fireworks stand owner/operator rented or otherwise paid for the use of the space to the store or property owner then wouldn't the fireworks operator have some sort of say in the matter? Not that I would agree with it, just seems that they would be on similar grounds to other retail renters/lessees or even housing renters/lessees when it comes to private property rights.

 

[jluck]

Not to put too fine a point on this, but if the fireworks stand owner/operator rented or otherwise paid for the use of the space to the store or property owner then wouldn't the fireworks operator have some sort of say in the matter? Not that I would agree with it, just seems that they would be on similar grounds to other retail renters/lessees or even housing renters/lessees when it comes to private property rights.

Yes! Many if not most businesses are ran out of leased or rented spaces. The business has there rules and owner can also have building rules. I really don't know why anyone would be surprised if asked to leave a business for OC sans maybe a gun shop.
I know you have a "right" to OC and I have (unintentionally in a very small town after having my .22 on hip all day), Nothing was said as I'm sure the clerk had me out gunned 10/1 but I would not have been one bit surprised if asked to leave and I would have no questions asked. I still had my CC gun on me to,Just how I like to carry. Concealed.

 

[etrain16]

Interesting discussion. I don't recall from my CPL information that a fireworks stand is a prohibited place, so that likely isn't a legal issue. I also checked in on the WAC rules for temporary fireworks stands - no mention of firearms in there either. Short of them asking you to leave their property (which, it would seem, they have the right to do), I don't think they can cite any legal reason for you not to carry. I think your choice to politely leave was the best one. Unfortunately, there are far too many people that have no clue what the actual rules/laws are concerning the carry of firearms, it's good for us to politely educate them on such matters.

Here are the WAC rules for a temporary fireworks stand in Washington - no mention of firearms:

WAC 212-17-21515
Agency filings affecting this section
Retailers of fireworks—Operation of retail fireworks stands.
(1) A clear aisle or walkway not less than twenty-four inches wide shall be maintained inside the full length of the structure. Customers shall only be permitted inside a temporary retail fireworks stand that is greater than four hundred square feet and which meets minimum exit requirements of the International Building Code and International Fire Code, as now or amended hereafter.
(2) Each temporary retail fireworks stand must have at least two exits, at least twenty-eight inches in width, located at opposite ends of the structure. Exits must remain unlocked and unobstructed during the hours of operation or when the stand is occupied.
(3) Sleeping inside a retail fireworks stand or an associated temporary fireworks storage facility is prohibited.
(4) The location of the nearest permanently mounted telephone must be posted inside the retail fireworks stand and persons working in the stand shall be informed of that location.
(5) The local emergency telephone number shall be conspicuously posted inside the retail fireworks stand.
(6) Each retail fireworks stand shall be equipped with two approved, pressurized two and one-half gallon water-type fire extinguishers.
(7) No open flames nor any type of open flame equipment shall be allowed in any retail fireworks stand.
(8) Retail fireworks stands shall be secured when unoccupied and not open for business if fireworks are kept in the structure during these times. Retail fireworks stands shall never be locked when occupied. The fireworks may be removed and transferred to a temporary storage structure or location approved as a part of the license and permit.
(9) At least one adult person, eighteen years of age or older shall be present at all times in every retail fireworks stand during the hours of sale to the public and shall be responsible for supervision of the retail fireworks stand and its operation. No person, other than customers, under the age of sixteen shall be allowed within a retail fireworks stand when it is open to the public. Fireworks, except for prepackaged assortments, boxes, or similarly packaged containers of more than one item, whether of the same or different kind, must be displayed in a manner which prevents the fireworks from being handled by the public or a customer without the direct intervention of the licensee or his or her representative who shall maintain visual contact.
(10) Retail fireworks stands may be required to be inspected by the state fire marshal and/or the local jurisdiction issuing the permit prior to opening for business and other inspections may occur on other days as warranted but there shall be no additional charge for all such inspections.
(11) In order to obtain return of a clean-up bond if required by the local authority having jurisdiction as a condition of permit, the cleanup of debris associated with the retail fireworks activity and the removal of all structures authorized by the license and permit shall occur on or before the last day of the storage period specified in these rules.
(12) Fireworks retailers shall not knowingly sell fireworks to persons under the age of sixteen.
(a) A sign reading "no sale of fireworks to persons under the age of sixteen years. PHOTO ID REQUIRED" in letters at least two inches high, with a principal stroke of not less than one-half inch, on contrasting background, shall be conspicuously posted on the front of each retail fireworks stand.
(b) Sellers shall require proof of age by means of display of a driver's license or photo identification card showing date of birth issued by a public or private school, state, federal or foreign government. No other forms of identification shall be accepted.
[Statutory Authority: Chapters 43.43 and 70.77 RCW. WSR 05-12-033, § 212-17-21515, filed 5/24/05, effective 6/24/05. Statutory Authority: RCW 70.77.250 and chapters 70.77 and 43.43RCW. WSR 98-04-007, § 212-17-21515, filed 1/23/98, effective 2/23/98.]

 

[dobeman]

You must go to the wrong fireworks stands...

I don't buy the things.. but my neighbors every year pull out the packs from the local stands or costco or where ever and they are grand whistling display all over the street. Sometimes one of the little suckers goes wild and you might have to dance out of its way.

 

[156256Hunter]

I tend to disagree that since he was in someone else's parking lot he couldn't ask someone to leave. (Whether he should have asked is an entirely different issue.) Inside the four corners of the tent which was his -- and what the tent covered -- I think was his "domain."

I say this because I assume he paid money to lease that spot, which likely gave him some pseudo-private property rights. For example, as long as he was there, no store customers could park their cars in those spots, and I doubt the store assumed the duty to safeguard the structure for him at night. That was most likely his responsibility. This isn't that much different than a reserved campsite in a national forest. You might object if someone comes over and sits down at your campfire, or went inside your tent to get a beer.

All in all, whether and where to open carry is a delicate issue. I never open carry, even in the woods while hiking. I'd rather people think I'm unarmed, than see from a mile away that I am armed.

 

[PiratePast40]

This is a little off topic, but still on the issue of fireworks. I know of two sandbox vets who suffer from PTSD and suffer greatly during the week long events of explosions and flashes. I recall one person saying how she hid in her bathtub trying to escape the noise and inner fear. I realize that most people using fireworks aren't doing so to cause anyone else anguish. But for those in close neighborhoods, please keep in mind that you do have an affect on others.

 

[Joe13]

This is a little off topic, but still on the issue of fireworks. I know of two sandbox vets who suffer from PTSD and suffer greatly during the week long events of explosions and flashes. I recall one person saying how she hid in her bathtub trying to escape the noise and inner fear. I realize that most people using fireworks aren't doing so to cause anyone else anguish. But for those in close neighborhoods, please keep in mind that you do have an affect on others.

It is murder on my small dogs every year. If it were a one day event, I could go camping in the mountains or something. As it is, it started last weekend and was still going on as of last night.

I love fireworks but after having small dogs that are very afraid of them, it has changed how I view them and the noise they create.

I can only try to imagine how it affects vets with PTSD and that has altered my view on them yet again now tht it has been pointed out to me.

My wife and daughter are no fans of loud noises, fireworks or firearms. Personally I love it so it's a bit foreign to me to have fear associated with explosions but I do what I can to help them stay comfortable when the situation arises.



Back to your friends issues though; have them look into noise canceling headphones. Maybe they could watch a few movies during the worst of it to take their minds off it.

 

[etrain16]

We were in Canby on the 4th. I know a couple of folks that make themselves scarce on the 4th as they suffer from PTSD after active service themselves. But I heard something on the 4th that I haven't run into before - someone unloading a bunch of rounds from a gun in rapid-fire fashion - and this wasn't out in the sticks. We were in a park to watch a fireworks display that evening. Big, illegal stuff was going off everywhere around us. You get to where you can tell what's what based on the sound. Then I heard someone start unloading the mags - by my count, two full 30 rounders, back to back. I wasn't the only one that noticed the distinct difference in the sound of the gunshots over the sound of the fireworks - it was obvious these were not fireworks. My only hope was that whatever moron was doing this in the middle of the city of Canby (came from a residential area), that they were shooting into the ground and not into the air. Some folks just don't have enough sense to stand and breath, much less make it even more dangerous for everyone out to have a good time.

 

[Joe13]

Wow! That's a bit messed up

Maybe they got ahold of some blanks? Either way, I'd be too worried about getting hit with an illegal discharge or just plain scarring the tar out of someone near by.

I think your last sentence covers it pretty well...

 

[1337BaldEagle]

Sadly I do support a business owners right to refuse service for any reason, its their business.

However, I.. At the same time hate that fact only because we constantly have PC acceptance and tolerance shoved down our throats and forced into our business yet firearm owners OCers don't get that same protected privilege? Thats the part I want the media and politicians to open their eyes and see.

Equal rights for ALL not just some.

If a bakery (now) cant turn down making a cake for a gay couples wedding, in turn NO business should be able to turn a person away for OCing. Its their own logic turned against them. Them being progressives.

Its called "A defensive lifestyle" and should be given every bit as much credibility, tolerance and understanding as any other "group" out there.

Sorry that happened to you brother.
If I was there I would have put my stuff away and told them the reason they just lost my business and a few other words to boot.

I could not say it any better.


Eagle