Army Ranger Shoots Buddy

[11Charlie]

Not necessarily. He'll probably be subject to some ucmj actions maybe even some military jail time. It is possible for him to be chartered but it's just as possible for him to stay in with reduced rank

My bet is he stays in and they get him on ucmj actions. A lot depends on if his buddy recovers or not. But I guarantee you he will regret that decision the rest of his life.

 

[13BWayToBe]

My bet is he stays in and they get him on ucmj actions. A lot depends on if his buddy makes recovers or not. But I guarantee you he will regret that decision the rest of his life.

Oh for sure. Thats what im thinking. Only people I have seen get kicked out for "Assault" charges were people already in the chapter process. I was on Ft Bragg so its alot of drunks and assaults. Most get Article 15's and the usual extra duty and rank drop. Sometimes some camp lejune jail time but are returned to active duty.

Also it seems (I may be mistaken) this guy wasnt a Tan Beret ranger in Batt. If he was in Wa I think he was just tab certified (Or ranger qual'd) Although he couldve Pcs'd over to a new unit for some odd reason. (If im not mistaken ranger Batts are in Georgia) By the looks of the article I think its safe to say this was a younger eager soldier who was tab certified ( Pt stud) again not like that matters Im just speculating.

Im sure whatever the outcome, if his buddy lives or dies, he will be in a bad mental state about it. I couldnt imagine putting a round into a friend let alone a civilian im defending myself against. Enemy combatants are one thing but a fellow soldier is another.

I bet hell always clear and check a weapon now for the rest of his life... If he isnt stripped of his ability to own one. Which would lead to chapter out of the military. Really rough situation.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

What kind of cleaning is done with a round in the chamber, I wonder? My cleaning rod would probably contact the cartridge on the first pass, just sayin'.

Maybe the participants were drinking a certain solvent of the Ethyl alcohol family.

"...in a Parkland apartment".

There's your sign right there.

 

[11Charlie]

Oh for sure. Thats what im thinking. Only people I have seen get kicked out for "Assault" charges were people already in the chapter process. I was on Ft Bragg so its alot of drunks and assaults. Most get Article 15's and the usual extra duty and rank drop. Sometimes some camp lejune jail time but are returned to active duty.

Also it seems (I may be mistaken) this guy wasnt a Tan Beret ranger in Batt. If he was in Wa I think he was just tab certified (Or ranger qual'd) Although he couldve Pcs'd over to a new unit for some odd reason. (If im not mistaken ranger Batts are in Georgia) By the looks of the article I think its safe to say this was a younger eager soldier who was tab certified ( Pt stud) again not like that matters Im just speculating.

Im sure whatever the outcome, if his buddy lives or dies, he will be in a bad mental state about it. I couldnt imagine putting a round into a friend let alone a civilian im defending myself against. Enemy combatants are one thing but a fellow soldier is another.

I bet hell always clear and check a weapon now for the rest of his life... If he isnt stripped of his ability to own one. Which would lead to chapter out of the military. Really rough situation.

I thought JBLM had a ranger battalion? I know that most are east coast but back in my day we had one at Fort Ord in komifornia.

 

[13BWayToBe]

What kind of cleaning is done with a round in the chamber, I wonder? My cleaning rod would probably contact the cartridge on the first pass, just sayin'.

Maybe the participants were drinking a certain solvent of the Ethyl alcohol family.

"...in a Parkland apartment".

There's your sign right there.

this is what I thought. Im surprised when he went to start cleaning, correct me if im wrong, the first step is removing the slide. How do you not check the chamber first before pulling that trigger to remove the slide. Absurdity. We get taught weapons saftey before we even get to touch m16's in basic...

 

[13BWayToBe]

I thought JBLM had a ranger battalion? I know that most are east coast but back in my day we had one at Fort Ord in komifornia.

Like I said I could be TOTALLY wrong. I assumed that all the Batts were in Benning.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The 2nd Ranger Battalion is at JBLM.
Andy

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Yea, 2nd BTN I believe.

Maybe it was a Glock that needed to drop the striker afore unlocking the slide.

Still, lock open, look at both ends and feel inside the chamber.

 

[13BWayToBe]

Roger that I stand corrected. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt for being tabbed and in regular army. Kind of makes the situation even more unbelievable...

 

[bbbass]

Now don't jump all over me, but whenever I play around with my gun, I discharge it and then clean it. I don't fire it at a buddy, but I've been known to shoot it at civilians and was never charged with assault.

Seriously, I asked about this in an earlier thread, is it a new trend to charge people that are involved in gun accidents with a crime?

Since he was in his apartment (offbase?) is he being charged in civilian criminal court and then can also be charged under UCMJ?

 

[13BWayToBe]

Now don't jump all over me, but whenever I play around with my gun, I discharge it and then clean it. I've been known to fire it at civilians too but was never charged with assault.

Seriously, I asked about his in an earlier thread, is it a new trend to charge people that are involved in gun accidents with a crime?

Since he was in his apartment (offbase?) is he being charged in civil court and then can also be charged under UCMJ?

I will say this: The army will find a way to punish him. Because its off base he will have to face civilian law. The commanders of his battalion regularly get a blotter of people arrested within the week or month. On top of him having to say "Hey Sgt I have court for shooting that guy" They will know. He is going to face punishment from the army IF ANYTHING solely on making the unit look bad.

Also curious what you meant about getting charged with a crime. I assumed that even in cases of self defense you might face charges due to just discharging the weapon.

Im sure Washington legislators will be jumping all over this in their gun control laws. "Hey look even the ranger had an ND and almost killed his buddy point blank" If anything the guy is an idiot for not following the MAIN thing the military teaches about weapon safety: Observe its clear, feel its clear.

And FFS You're a damn RANGER!

 

[bbbass]

Also curious what you meant about getting charged with a crime. I assumed that even in cases of self defense you might face charges due to just discharging the weapon.

He is being charged with Assault yes? In a criminal complaint? I've been reading lately of these kinds of criminal charges in cases of ND where there is injury or death. My question is... has this always been true or is this a new thing due to anti-gun police and prosecutors?

I would have to disagree that people in self defense cases get nailed for discharging a weapon. Never heard of a bonafide SD being charged. Heck the people in Umatilla were banging away all over the place, negligently IMO, and I don't think they wound up being charged.

 

[13BWayToBe]

Thats what I was wondering as well. How do they charge him with assault if the victim cant even say if he wants to press charges or not.

Maybe its just a myth ive heard but ive been told from alot of people that if you shoot in SD you will most likely be in court with alot of money down the tube defending yourself

 

[bbbass]

Thats what I was wondering as well. How do they charge him with assault if the victim cant even say if he wants to press charges or not.

Maybe its just a myth ive heard but ive been told from alot of people that if you shoot in SD you will most likely be in court with alot of money down the tube defending yourself

Many times the jurisdiction has an ability under the law to prefer charges w/o a complaint from a "victim". For instance, child related sex offenses, in many states domestic violence can be brought by police. Things like that.

On court appearance that is probably refering to civil court. My brother's friend was sued when a guy that tried to rob him with a knife then fell on the knife during a struggle and died. The family of the perp lost in court but the friend was ruined. Lost his business, marriage, etc.

 

[Dungannon]

What kind of cleaning is done with a round in the chamber, I wonder?

from the article: Popek reportedly told investigators he had been playing around with his gun while cleaning the weapon when he pointed it at the victim and pulled the trigger. The two men had been preparing to go to a shooting range at the time.

1. The shooter said he was cleaning the gun at the time. Maybe, maybe not.

2. They were getting ready to go shooting. Doesn't say what type of firearm was involved, but if it was a handgun, maybe the 'cleaning' was complete, and his 'playing around' occurred after loading a magazine and prior to holstering.

Negligence that results in serious injury or death has consequences - with firearms as with cars.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Another stupid tragedy!

 

[orygun]

As I've said before, I think the "cleaning my gun" is a lie made up and stated by anyone who is ever involved with something like this.
Must think it sounds better than, "I was playing around with a loaded firearm and shot someone/something". I have never believed any story like that.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

no excuse for negligence.

whether or not its the case in this situation we'll probably never know.

as said before, i have a buddy in the 2/75th at JBLM, i talked to him today about this. he said he has seen the guy on base before. hes in a different platoon though.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Negligence with a firearm resulting in serious injury has been a crime since I was taking criminal law back in the Neolithic age.

Note the date in red at the bottom. 1975.

General requirements of culpability.
(1) Kinds of Culpability Defined.
(a) INTENT. A person acts with intent or intentionally when he or she acts with the objective or purpose to accomplish a result which constitutes a crime.
(b) KNOWLEDGE. A person knows or acts knowingly or with knowledge when:
(i) he or she is aware of a fact, facts, or circumstances or result described by a statute defining an offense; or
(ii) he or she has information which would lead a reasonable person in the same situation to believe that facts exist which facts are described by a statute defining an offense.
(c) RECKLESSNESS. A person is reckless or acts recklessly when he or she knows of and disregards a substantial risk that a wrongful act may occur and his or her disregard of such substantial risk is a gross deviation from conduct that a reasonable person would exercise in the same situation.
(d) CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE. A person is criminally negligent or acts with criminal negligence when he or she fails to be aware of a substantial risk that a wrongful act may occur and his or her failure to be aware of such substantial risk constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would exercise in the same situation.
(2) Substitutes for Criminal Negligence, Recklessness, and Knowledge. When a statute provides that criminal negligence suffices to establish an element of an offense, such element also is established if a person acts intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly. When recklessness suffices to establish an element, such element also is established if a person acts intentionally or knowingly. When acting knowingly suffices to establish an element, such element also is established if a person acts intentionally.
(3) Culpability as Determinant of Grade of Offense. When the grade or degree of an offense depends on whether the offense is committed intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, its grade or degree shall be the lowest for which the determinative kind of culpability is established with respect to any material element of the offense.
(4) Requirement of Wilfulness Satisfied by Acting Knowingly. A requirement that an offense be committed wilfully is satisfied if a person acts knowingly with respect to the material elements of the offense, unless a purpose to impose further requirements plainly appears.

[ 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.08.010.]

Also, from 1986:
RCW 9A.36.031
...(d) With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm to another person by means of a weapon or other instrument or thing likely to produce bodily harm;...

Doesn't have anything to do with anti-gun anybody.

 

[bbbass]

Negligence with a firearm resulting in serious injury has been a crime since I was taking criminal law back in the Neolithic age.

Note the date in red at the bottom. 1975.

General requirements of culpability.
(1) Kinds of Culpability Defined.
(a) INTENT. A person acts with intent or intentionally when he or she acts with the objective or purpose to accomplish a result which constitutes a crime.
(b) KNOWLEDGE. A person knows or acts knowingly or with knowledge when:
(i) he or she is aware of a fact, facts, or circumstances or result described by a statute defining an offense; or
(ii) he or she has information which would lead a reasonable person in the same situation to believe that facts exist which facts are described by a statute defining an offense.
(c) RECKLESSNESS. A person is reckless or acts recklessly when he or she knows of and disregards a substantial risk that a wrongful act may occur and his or her disregard of such substantial risk is a gross deviation from conduct that a reasonable person would exercise in the same situation.
(d) CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE. A person is criminally negligent or acts with criminal negligence when he or she fails to be aware of a substantial risk that a wrongful act may occur and his or her failure to be aware of such substantial risk constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would exercise in the same situation.
(2) Substitutes for Criminal Negligence, Recklessness, and Knowledge. When a statute provides that criminal negligence suffices to establish an element of an offense, such element also is established if a person acts intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly. When recklessness suffices to establish an element, such element also is established if a person acts intentionally or knowingly. When acting knowingly suffices to establish an element, such element also is established if a person acts intentionally.
(3) Culpability as Determinant of Grade of Offense. When the grade or degree of an offense depends on whether the offense is committed intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, its grade or degree shall be the lowest for which the determinative kind of culpability is established with respect to any material element of the offense.
(4) Requirement of Wilfulness Satisfied by Acting Knowingly. A requirement that an offense be committed wilfully is satisfied if a person acts knowingly with respect to the material elements of the offense, unless a purpose to impose further requirements plainly appears.

[ 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.08.010.]

Also, from 1986:
RCW 9A.36.031
...(d) With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm to another person by means of a weapon or other instrument or thing likely to produce bodily harm;...

Doesn't have anything to do with anti-gun anybody.

Thanks Dad. Cut and paste much?