Armed Citizen Militia show up at Occupy Phoenix

[Riot]

The bolded part is factually incorrect. Actually strict gun control was instituted under the Weimar Republic, before Hitler was in office. You may be thinking of the Nurenburg racial laws which specifically disarmed Jews only.

So needing a certificate and dealers having licenses is more strict that outlawing all Jews and "enemies of the state" from owning firearms?

Granted, the foundation was laid out before Hitler was in office, but just because I put gas in my car doesn't mean it's my fault for it catching fire. Hitler instigated the ban and enforced it....then loaded non essential Jews to gas chambers and death camps once they couldn't defend themselves.

Pulling out any type of defense for one of the cruelest leaders of the 20th century is something I expect from the Aryan Brotherhood types.

 

[Working 4 U]

Misterbill - Thanks for the clarification, I was speaking from high school history memory (1982:huh: where did the time go). But needless to say this helps my point, 1. Hitler at his time limited guns to certain people and 2. He is not role model.

"... In 1928, before Hitler came to power, a Reich Law was enacted to regulate guns. Dealers needed a license. And in order to buy ammunition and own and register a gun, one needed a certificate.

Then, as soon as Hitler became chancellor on January 30, 1933, Nazi party police did indeed start seizing guns from all those deemed enemies of the state. That included communists, socialists and Jews; and five years later, Jewish citizenship was revoked altogether. More, on June 12, 1933, an executive order banned the importation of guns. It eased other pre-Nazi era gun restrictions, however. German Aryans no longer needed a license to own a rifle. They could buy ammunition without a permit. And if you were a state employee, a Nazi Party member or part of a civil defense team, you did not need a license to buy and carry a handgun.

Another gun control law went into effect on April 1, 1938. At that point, it became possible for German citizens (but not Jews or enemies of the state) to buy a handgun with a simple hunter's permit. All limits on buying ammunition were lifted. Carrying a gun in public required a license.

Thus, the Nazi regime's restrictions were on citizenship and political reliability, not on guns per se. Hitler did not seize all the guns in 1934 or any other year. "

 

[Grunwald]

Back to the OP. I find it interesting that people who support and fight for the 2nd can find a role model in Hitler and walk around like a Nazi. Just sayin.

Are you serious claypigeon?

That was how Hitler got control of the country he first started out with strict gun laws and then had guns outlawed so the civilians could not own them and not be able to stand up against his forces.

I'm "just sayin" that was an idioic comment.

Anyone that thinks Hitler is a role model is not in his right mind.

Working_4_U, seems that you missed his point and took it 180 degrees from the intended meaning.

 

[Working 4 U]

Working_4_U, seems that you missed his point and took it 180 degrees from the intended meaning.

Sorry if I missed the point, I guess I missed the sarcasm.

 

[Riot]

To add...

Hitler came to be President of Germany in 1934. In 1938 he instigated The 1938 German Weapons Act, stating that all Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or ownership of firearms and ammunition. Hence the statement that Working 4 U is referring to about when he stated that Hitler instigated strict gun laws for the citizens of Germany.

Like or not, Misterbill, Jews living in Germany were still citizens of Germany.

 

[claypigeon]

Sorry if I missed the point, I guess I missed the sarcasm.

Yeah, it wouldn't be very interesting if Hitler was pro gun & pro human rights now would it?

 

[Riot]

Yeah, it wouldn't be very interesting if Hitler was pro gun & pro human rights now would it?

He was, as long as you were a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Aryan.

 

[Working 4 U]

Those who don't learn from history or heed history are doomed to repeat it. Which path do you think we are on?

 

[Misterbill]

So needing a certificate and dealers having licenses is more strict that outlawing all Jews and "enemies of the state" from owning firearms?

Granted, the foundation was laid out before Hitler was in office, but just because I put gas in my car doesn't mean it's my fault for it catching fire. Hitler instigated the ban and enforced it....then loaded non essential Jews to gas chambers and death camps once they couldn't defend themselves.

Pulling out any type of defense for one of the cruelest leaders of the 20th century is something I expect from the Aryan Brotherhood types.

Why does citing facts automatically equate in any way to a "defense" of Hitler? In what way did I ever even imply that Hitler was anything other than evil?
the "Hitler took everyone's guns and that was he only reason he could do what he did," meme is total BS. Hitler was hugely popular, Jews had been persecuted in Europe and blamed for everything from the black death to economic troubles for centuries. An easy, unpopular minority to target. And NOT a minority with a history of fighting.

There are dozens of terrific reasons why gun control is a bad idea that are based on fact and history. Clinging onto a meme that's BS doesn't hep the cause of gun rights.

There was never any danger of armed revolt after 1933. Not because political enemies of Hitler were disarmed, but because the vast majority of Germans supported Hitler at least in some degree. Would the Jews in Germany have resisted deportation (and later murder. Remember that The death camps were not widely known to exist as such. ) if they hadn't had their guns taken away? I doubt it. Certainly not on any large scale. The Warsaw Ghetto uprising didn't happen until 1943 for God's sake, 5 years into the occupation and THAT was done by Polish Jews, not Germans Jews, and was done in the face of learning what was going to happen to everyone anyway (Auschwitz).

Making up BS or wildly exaggerating to support a cause doesn't help, it actively hurts, because the BS is inevitably exposed as BS and then everything you're arguing for becomes tainted. As I said, that doesn't help our cause. It actively damages it.

 

[Riot]

Why does citing facts automatically equate in any way to a "defense" of Hitler?

You didn't cite any fact. In fact you were incorrect. You stated that the gun laws before Hitler were worse than during his regime, when in fact- this is incorrect. There were strict gun laws about licensing and registration, then the 1938 German Weapon Act made it illegal for all Jews and enemies of the state to own firearms. What step am I missing here?

In what way did I ever even imply that Hitler was anything other than evil?

Did you forget saying this?

The bolded part is factually incorrect. Actually strict gun control was instituted under the Weimar Republic, before Hitler was in office. You may be thinking of the Nurenburg racial laws which specifically disarmed Jews only.

I actually had to look it up...even looked up where you found this "fact". In fact, this is the entire article...

He was a lone figure in this video posted on the Kansas City Minuteman Civil Defense Corps website. Carrying a small piece of cardboard with "Tax the Rich" scrawled on it, he wore a white tee-shirt with a picture of a handgun crossed out in red by the universal "no" symbol. The rest of the crowd, estimated by organizers at 500 patriots, at the United We Stand Freedom Fest on Sunday September 6, clapped the speakers and paid the tax the rich guy little mind. Except for one freedom fester who came over to argue. First the topic was health care, and you can imagine that the fester wanted the government to get out of health care. Then the topic turned to history.



"Let me ask you a question," the fester said. "World War Two. What did Hitler do first in 1934. Know your history buddy before you go on preaching. What happened in 1934 in Adolph Hitler's Germany? What did he do. What did he do. They took their weapons away," the fester concluded.

The scene was reminiscent of the mid-1990s when all those posters appeared at gun shows. They pictured Hitler with his arm up in a "Seig Heil" salute. 'All in favor of gun control raise your right arm,' was the cut line. Railing against Hitler as a symbol of gun control was popular back then, and it has become fashionable again.

Mr. tax the rich did not have much to say about this. But in the interest of History, and its accuracy, it needs to be remembered that Hitler did not take everyone's guns away, and that "gun control" for reliable Aryan-types was actually fairly relaxed.

In 1928, before Hitler came to power, a Reich Law was enacted to regulate guns. Dealers needed a license. And in order to buy ammunition and own and register a gun, one needed a certificate.

Then, as soon as Hitler became chancellor on January 30, 1933, Nazi party police did indeed start seizing guns from all those deemed enemies of the state. That included communists, socialists and Jews; and five years later, Jewish citizenship was revoked altogether. More, on June 12, 1933, an executive order banned the importation of guns. It eased other pre-Nazi era gun restrictions, however. German Aryans no longer needed a license to own a rifle. They could buy ammunition without a permit. And if you were a state employee, a Nazi Party member or part of a civil defense team, you did not need a license to buy and carry a handgun.

Another gun control law went into effect on April 1, 1938. At that point, it became possible for German citizens (but not Jews or enemies of the state) to buy a handgun with a simple hunter's permit. All limits on buying ammunition were lifted. Carrying a gun in public required a license.

Thus, the Nazi regime's restrictions were on citizenship and political reliability, not on guns per se. Hitler did not seize all the guns in 1934 or any other year. The militia-era poster was wrong in fact. And the question remains for the freedom fester described above: Should guns in the United States be restricted to citizens only? And what about those deemed by the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps to be unpatriotic "enemies of the state"?

Leonard Zeskind - Guns, History, Nazis, and "Enemies of the State"

There was never any danger of armed revolt after 1933. Not because political enemies of Hitler were disarmed, but because the vast majority of Germans supported Hitler at least in some degree.

Kinda point mute at this point. So if I siphon all the gas from your car, thus leaving you incapable of driving it, then I come up with stating that you weren't going to drive it anyways since you just got home. If they didn't have the guns to do an armed revolt, then I guess we'll never know if they would have done a revolt anyways.

Would the Jews in Germany have resisted deportation (and later murder. Remember that The death camps were not widely known to exist as such. ) if they hadn't had their guns taken away? I doubt it. Certainly not on any large scale. The Warsaw Ghetto uprising didn't happen until 1943 for God's sake, 5 years into the occupation and THAT was done by Polish Jews, not Germans Jews, and was done in the face of learning what was going to happen to everyone anyway (Auschwitz).

Making up BS or wildly exaggerating to support a cause doesn't help, it actively hurts, because the BS is inevitably exposed as BS and then everything you're arguing for becomes tainted. As I said, that doesn't help our cause. It actively damages it.

There is no exaggerating BS to support anything. Hitler was evil, pure and simple. Hitler instigated laws that hindered gun ownership of Jews, then loaded non-essential Jew on trains and killed them.

What damages a movement is scum like "JT Ready" that wears Nazi paraphernalia, one day, then plays soldier boy on the boarder the next.

 

[A.I.P.]

Mr Bill: Though all my posts on this thread were deleted (because I oppose nazies) I am attempting yet again to set the historical record straight: There were Thousands of German Jews transported to the Warsaw Ghetto prior to the deportations to the death camps. Most of the German Jews were near death from starvation and added to the daily death toll that often exceeded 100. The Jews were quite aware of the death camps, many were in denial and most were suffering from starvation which weakened resolve. It was not untill the leasder of the Jewish Community in Warsaw commited suicide that offical restrictions to resistance became moot and by this time some arms had been bought from black marketers and the Polish Resistance. Some men killed Nazies with hammers to gain a weapon.