Are big scopes the new big truck?

[bbbass]

I can see putting a scope on a AR but no need for a big one .

Eye of the beholder...

I have an AR varmint build with a 4x12... sure could use a 6x24 or some such.

my eyes are 59.
I still need nothing larger than a 10 pwer out to 300 yards.

My eyes are 66, I have macular edema... used to need 4x12 to see beyond 100yds, now I'm not sure as I haven't shot rifle since my eyes went south. Even had to shoot my pistol cross-dominant so I'm not looking forward to shouldering my rifle right handed and shooting with my left eye.

This thread reminds me of an old joke I heard when I was a kid.

"White men build big fires and stand far away, while Indians make small fire and sit real close"

Racist bastid!

Let me see if I got it: White man shoot deer at 3000yds, Indian sneak up and slit throats. Indian have less of a walk, white man use 4x4 to fetch up dead critter.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

"shoot for the moon"

 

[Argonaut]

My eyes are becoming a problem, after retinal surgeries, over 1000 shots of laser and 45 years of type 1 diabetes I am having cataract surgery in the next few weeks with great hope they will stabilize and improve. Any scope or optic is a great improvement over my bare eyes. A diopter adjustment is also helpful. This enviability was one of the main reasons I didn't go into my apprenticed and trained photography trade after being diagnosed in my 20's and probably why I was drawn to high risk activities (and professions) while I was still able. I was shooting trap the other day with a receding sun behind the targets, I would follow the bird out of the house and absoultly loose sight of it as it went above the horizon. Would have to watch near the ground to look for fragments falling to know if I hit the bird. I guess my years of intense trap shooting in the USAF paid off. I shot a 19 even with that issue.

 

[P7M13]

I'll bite.
White man afraid of dark, Indian doesn't want to be seen.

 

[Capn Jack]

I don't care about the size of their scopes.
But I do get concerned when they show up wearing
load-out vests and drop leg pistol holsters...

 

[bbbass]

I was shooting trap the other day with a receding sun behind the targets, I would follow the bird out of the house and absoultly loose sight of it as it went above the horizon.

I shot trap 5-6yrs ago with my most hated brother (when I was still trying with him) and when the bird got up aways the macular blind spot completely covered the bird... I had to guess where it was from clues I saw in my peripheral vision. Shot a 12 or 15 (I don't remember) and my brother, who was a complete novice, shot a 20. I struggled so much and was so bummed that I gave up my field gun to him right then and there.

I hope your cataract surgery makes things much better for you! It did for me until I had a cortisone shot that ruined the rest of my vision by leaving exudates on the macula. No more shots in the eye... not gonna do it!

 

[Geardo]

I was at the range earlier today sighing in a sensible rifle(Howa 1500 308 win) with a sensible optic(3.5-10X40). Several benches down there was a very loud group of bro type guys also doing some shooting in this wonderful August weather. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed that most of the rifles they were shooting had massive Hubble telescope optics on them, not the sort of scope one would want to lug on their back for any length of time. I snickered a little to myself and went about my business, a few moments later one of the frat gents asked me if they could use my spotting scope. I obliged and let him set up on the bench next to me with my Spotter, I took a look through the scope when he was finished up and was shocked. Those guys weren't hitting their targets with any sort of precision, it was tough to call any of their shooting a group but I would guess the best they were pulling off was a 6 inch 3 shot group on a 100 yard target.

This got me wondering if they were counting on their ridiculous scopes to offset poor marksmanship in the same way one can hope a lifted truck will make up for the fact they do not know how to drive off of the paved road?

Was the rifle some ridculous magnum caliber? I can print 1-2 moa with irons off a bench.

 

[bbbass]

Looking at the size of other men's scopes is kinda like staring at junk in the locker room shower isn't it?

 

[Geardo]

Looking at the size of other men's scopes is kinda like staring at junk in the locker room shower isn't it?

Only Wierd if you get caught

 

[bbbass]

Only Wierd if you get caught

Really? LOL

 

[Gene Rojas]

I was at the range earlier today sighing in a sensible rifle(Howa 1500 308 win) with a sensible optic(3.5-10X40). Several benches down there was a very loud group of bro type guys also doing some shooting in this wonderful August weather. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed that most of the rifles they were shooting had massive Hubble telescope optics on them, not the sort of scope one would want to lug on their back for any length of time. I snickered a little to myself and went about my business, a few moments later one of the frat gents asked me if they could use my spotting scope. I obliged and let him set up on the bench next to me with my Spotter, I took a look through the scope when he was finished up and was shocked. Those guys weren't hitting their targets with any sort of precision, it was tough to call any of their shooting a group but I would guess the best they were pulling off was a 6 inch 3 shot group on a 100 yard target.

This got me wondering if they were counting on their ridiculous scopes to offset poor marksmanship in the same way one can hope a lifted truck will make up for the fact they do not know how to drive off of the paved road?

You nailed it- there are plenty of tacticool wanna-be sniper types, decked out in BDUs at the range with $3-5k AR-type rifles, but most are mediocre marksmen at best. Since I got back into shooting a few years ago, I noticed these guys too, got tired of them shooting my targets, and decided I needed a more private and open place to shoot- haven't shot a range since then. There are three local ranges very close to me, but for the $15-20 admission I can use that money for gas and drive up to the Mojave, where there are more options for long distance shooting, as well as enough open space to set up tactical courses where my shooting buddies and I can run drills without attracting too much attention, or having strangers come up and ask if they can run our course too (nope- set up your own).

One of the other points you nailed was the "bench rifle" issue- I set my rifles up to be carried into the field. One of the issues I noticed with my Aero M5E1 build was that it was still pretty heavy (13.6 lbs with scope, bipod and 25-rd. magazine)- too heavy to pack into the brush. My recent 6.5 Grendel build only tips the scale at 8.2 lbs. empty w/ no optic, so I'm looking forward to seeing how feels once I get the optic on it and ammo for my mags- if it loads out in the 10+ lb. range I will be very happy. I run QD mounts and have MS-4 slings for my rifles, so I do plan to hike with them too.

Geno

 

[Bullet Farmer]

Ahhh..the age old question, once again. I've had numerous arguments about optics. Being a former bench shooter, I'll offer my thoughts, as probably obsolete as they could be..I prefer 40mm objectives, and fixed magnification. Why?
1) large objectives require the scope be mounted high - higher than many shooters will feel comfortable with, so raised cheekpieces are required, and the sight/bore distance is such that adjustment is difficult in certain circumstances, and Parallax can become an issue.
2) Fixed magnification is best, because with fixed magnification, the sight picture never changes, and bullet drop is easily factored. High magnification will also introduce being "lost in the scope," which most people won't admit to, but is easily seen, by them backing away from the ocular end momentarily.
The worst? Probably those who have no compunction about spending thousands on their rifle, only to mount the cheapest scope they can find, on it.
I guess some things have changed, but optics will be the most misunderstood part of shooting, probably till the end of time.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I recently switched from a 50mm objective Vortex scope to a 40mm, but only because getting proper clearance on my S&W (Howa) 1500 in .30-06 required medium height rings, which meant that I could not get a proper cheek weld on the stock and still see through the scope. Using the lower rings my accuracy improved greatly. Here's the clearance Ik have now with a 40MM objective:

 

[bbbass]

drive up to the Mojave, where there are more options for long distance shooting,

Geno

15-20 min would put you in where... San Berdu?

So you're the guy that shot the experimental plane down eh?

 

[Gene Rojas]

15-20 min would put you in where... San Berdu?

So you're the guy that shot the experimental plane down eh?

I live in Santa Clarita, just north of Los Angeles. It takes me about an hour to get up to Mojave.

Geno

 

[H2O MAN]

Big Scopes?

I switched from iron sights to either a 1 or 2 MOA red dot, and still shoot sub MOA groups @ 100 yards without any magnification.

 

[eightyeight mag]

Ok,
we need someone to start a "show your big scopes" thread.
Then we can all laugh at you guys that have "little tiny scopes".

 

[Superglide]

So tell me why a camera lens with a larger objective (larger F stop) makes the same total exposure in so much shorter time....than a smaller one.

I will answer this one. Objective lens size is not a part of Fstop. F stop is the ratio of the focal length to the entrance pupil. The entrance pupil is varied and measured by the diaphragm, not the objective.
The fastest lens I own is a f1.2 and it has only a 52mm objective diameter. I sold off my slower and much larger, less than optimum f3.5 67mm kit lens to buy it.
A larger F stop will make the same exposure faster than a smaller F stop. That is true.
The objective diameter does not factor in.
Consider all the very fast, very expensive and very small Leica glass.

That all being said, your rifles sport some stellar optics.

 

[Gene Rojas]

Ok,
we need someone to start a "show your big scopes" thread.
Then we can all laugh at you guys that have "little tiny scopes".

It's not the size of your scope, but how far you shoot with it. And some of us were not born with Eagle eyes- I could never make 1000 yd. shots with irons, or even a 3-9x40.

Geno

 

[Capn Jack]

Used to be the only thing a man had that he will brag about
being smaller than anyone else was his cell phone.