Are big scopes the new big truck?

[HINZERD]

I was at the range earlier today sighing in a sensible rifle(Howa 1500 308 win) with a sensible optic(3.5-10X40). Several benches down there was a very loud group of bro type guys also doing some shooting in this wonderful August weather. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed that most of the rifles they were shooting had massive Hubble telescope optics on them, not the sort of scope one would want to lug on their back for any length of time. I snickered a little to myself and went about my business, a few moments later one of the frat gents asked me if they could use my spotting scope. I obliged and let him set up on the bench next to me with my Spotter, I took a look through the scope when he was finished up and was shocked. Those guys weren't hitting their targets with any sort of precision, it was tough to call any of their shooting a group but I would guess the best they were pulling off was a 6 inch 3 shot group on a 100 yard target.

This got me wondering if they were counting on their ridiculous scopes to offset poor marksmanship in the same way one can hope a lifted truck will make up for the fact they do not know how to drive off of the paved road?

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[Stomper]

Were their objective lenses over 50mm?

And yes, 6moa groups are disgraceful.

 

[HINZERD]

Were their objective lenses over 50mm?

And yes, 6moa groups are disgraceful.

Absolutely, 56mm objectives all the way around.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Obviously their rifles haven't "settled in" yet.

oof

 

[Camelfilter]

You can buy anything, doesn't mean it makes you any good.

Everyone starts somewhere, sounds like these guys were just starting out.

If they weren't acting out, they could likely have used some advice. Course, only if given/asked for, and listened to.

Not really sure what they'd need a spotting scope for at 100yds with those scopes anyways though...

 

[Argonaut]

I have a lot of European 56mm scopes. They are the standard in Germany because we hunt at night a lot there. In this country, it might make a difference in the early and late shooting times but generally not necessary in American type hunting. We also use large heavy post type reticles that are very useful in night shooting. For guys with old eyes, the heavy crosshairs are very useful. The Germans did intense studies and determined that a 56mm objective gathers all the light the human eye can accept......so any larger than that doesn't give any advantage.

 

[LuckySG]

Obviously their rifles haven't "settled in" yet.

oof

Good point! Need to follow the recommended break in process that includes tightening down the scopes so they don't wander with every shot. I had this problem with my neighbor, kept buying cheap rings and his Howa 30-06 kep breaking them.

 

[Gene Rojas]

What do you consider "too large" a riflescope? I was originally looking at a Nikon black x1000 6-24x50 for my 6.5 Grendel build, but am now also considering an Athlon Midas BTR 4.5-27x50, as well as some of their 56mm scopes. My reason is old eyes as well.

Geno

 

[LuckySG]

What do you consider "too large" a riflescope? I was originally looking at a Nikon black x1000 6-24x50 for my 6.5 Grendel build, but am now also considering an Athlon Midas BTR 4.5-27x50, as well as some of their 56mm scopes. My reason is old eyes as well.

Geno

I crossed that line recently! A 4x just does not help me see the target well enough at 100 yards. It is not too large if you can carry it and no one hears you swear under your breath.

My take on this was an optic that stood out because it broke the golden rule of proportions. When I test mounted @skrugers new Athlon scope on the Ruger American 5.56 it was a standout, but when he adds the can, it is back to a ratio that is more appealing to our eyes. Your TV screen is an excellent example of this ratio.

 

[Argonaut]

I crossed that line recently! A 4x just does not help me see the target well enough at 100 yards. It is not too large if you can carry it and no one hears you swear under your breath.

My take on this was an optic that stood out because it broke the golden rule of proportions. When I test mounted @skrugers new Athlon scope on the Ruger American 5.56 it was a standout, but when he adds the can, it is back to a ratio that is more appealing to our eyes. Your TV screen is an excellent example of this ratio.

The physical objective size of a scope has nothing to do with magnification. Only light gathering abilities.

 

[Member 34319]

"Bro, like you got that MOA right?"

"Dude you know it, I'm like totally MOA?"

"Awesome bro, how many MOA is that scope?"

"Yo, it's like 1/4" miles of accuracy MOA bro! That's like 600 yards man."

"No way brah, that's like, like a freaking mile brah!"

Got to love tactical toms. They are the most tactical of them all.

 

[LuckySG]

The physical objective size of a scope has nothing to do with magnification. Only light gathering abilities.

That is true, but not my point. In general we find more magnification in larger formats. One can shop to deliberately avoid this, that is the extra effort.

 

[LuckySG]

"Bro, like you got that MOA right?"

"Dude you know it, I'm like totally MOA?"

"Awesome bro, how many MOA is that scope?"

"Yo, it's like 1/4" miles of accuracy MOA bro! That's like 600 yards man."

"No way brah, that's like, like a freaking mile brah!"

Got to love tactical toms. They are the most tactical of them all.

Nah, it is all about the mils. You need mils!

 

[Camelfilter]

Nah, it is all about the mils. You need mils!

Yah needs moa mils brah, moa mils!

 

[Member 34319]

Nah, it is all about the mils. You need mils!

I totally forgot brah, Mil is like 3 miles of accuracy, but MOA is only like 1 mile of accuracy.

 

[Argonaut]

That is true, but not my point. In general we find more magnification in larger formats. One can shop to deliberately avoid this, that is the extra effort.

?...........the best light gathering scope by dimension is a 6X56......(6 power X 56mm Objective) they were the most popular scope in Europe. But the Nickle on my Steyr is a 21/2 To 12 X56........it is a very expensive hand made scope but the quality shows in the glass and mechanical strength and precision. Magnification is a simple function of optical formula.

 

[HINZERD]

A few fun quick keyboard warrior points;

Scopes do not "gather" light, they transmit light. Any size objective lens will only transmit a percentage of the available light it does not magically gather more than what is there. Nikon is trash. Put this hog on your Grendel(VX-5HD 2-10x42mm CDS-ZL2 | Leupold). On Athlon, see earlier point about Nikon

 

[Argonaut]

A few fun quick keyboard warrior points;

Scopes do not "gather" light, they transmit light. Any size objective lens will only transmit a percentage of the available light it does not magically gather more than what is there. Nikon is trash. Put this hog on your Grendel(VX-5HD 2-10x42mm CDS-ZL2 | Leupold). On Athlon, see earlier point about Nikon

I actually have a degree in photography with extensive training in optics. (I totally agree with you on Nikon and Leupold) but that big objective does gather light.....that is why it is so big. It concentrates the light available on the (56mm) objective down to the size of your pupil. That is how lenses work. Even light gathered from the edges meet the light from the center at the focal point. We loose depth of field from the light gathered at the outer edges because of the steeper angle it has to make to meet at the focal point. Cameras are different in light gathering because the film gathers light over the time of exposure as opposed to our eye that transmits it immediately. That is why you can see so many stars with a simple photograph than by your eye. Off course none of that makes anything more accurate. That (in a scope) is the function of the precision of the mechanics like crosshairs. Something Leupold does a very good job off.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I was at the range earlier today sighing in a sensible rifle(Howa 1500 308 win) with a sensible optic(3.5-10X40). Several benches down there was a very loud group of bro type guys also doing some shooting in this wonderful August weather. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed that most of the rifles they were shooting had massive Hubble telescope optics on them, not the sort of scope one would want to lug on their back for any length of time. I snickered a little to myself and went about my business, a few moments later one of the frat gents asked me if they could use my spotting scope. I obliged and let him set up on the bench next to me with my Spotter, I took a look through the scope when he was finished up and was shocked. Those guys weren't hitting their targets with any sort of precision, it was tough to call any of their shooting a group but I would guess the best they were pulling off was a 6 inch 3 shot group on a 100 yard target.

This got me wondering if they were counting on their ridiculous scopes to offset poor marksmanship in the same way one can hope a lifted truck will make up for the fact they do not know how to drive off of the paved road?

Around here, we call those pavement princesses.. However, I've seen many AR type rifles with tiny scopes on them too and wonder how they are going to group well at even 100 yards. I look through my spotting scope and also see what you see: 5-6" groups at 100 yards... So what does this tell you??? I actually saw this yesterday at the range. From what I have seen, there are not a lot of precision type AR shooters around. Takes all types though. I'm not too concerned either way..

 

[Certaindeaf]

Around here, we call those pavement princesses.. However, I've seen many AR type rifles with tiny scopes on them too and wonder how they are going to group well at even 100 yards. I look through my spotting scope and also see what you see: 5-6" groups at 100 yards... So what does this tell you??? I actually saw this yesterday at the range. From what I have seen, there are not a lot of precision type AR shooters around. Takes all types though. I'm not too concerned either way..

That it's the Indian.