AR15 reloading .223

[Koda]

Recoil, like those posts before have stated, for symptoms beyond primer flattening and piercing, you can look to the cycling of the action, the ejection, and you will feel a difference. If you feel the BCG bottoming out hard, that's a pretty solid clue.
Now, on your choice of powders:
AA 2520 -- you could load heavy bullets with that, meaning I would look at 62gr to 77 gr bullets.
If you're in the Beaverton area, I have some H322, 2230 or 10x you can try.

I am, but gonna see what the 2520 I have will do, it should work. It was all I could find over the last year I got lucky on an email notification.... (though Ive seen it available since). I think 2520 should work but am appreciative of the offer.

 

[deadeye]

True, but Im just wondering if many reloaders are aware of the argument that further in the case is less ideal, like discussed above. Or... maybe its not significant enough to worry about. I dont know, but im not experienced. Id like to use a 55g TTSX, or a 60g Hammer Hunter (really cant decide between them) they are virtually the same length and will protrude into the case a bit more than discussed above but not super deep IMO. I think they will work. A compromise is a 50g alternatives of both would be ideal and probably fine but I just wanted to push a heavier bullet if I can.

https://ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

Page 50 Just pay attention to the ones that are marked as compressed loads when max.

 

[Koda]

https://ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

Page 50 Just pay attention to the ones that are marked as compressed loads when max.

my understanding is those heavier (ie, longer...) bullet loads were developed in bolt actions where they dont need to fit inside an AR15 magazine?

 

[ma96782]

My assumption of the various AR15 load data published by the BIG GUYS are that....

Unless otherwise stated somewhere.....

So then......
The cartridge produced will have taken in account the AR15's magazine length (aka: COAL) and by default, the bullet "depth" (amount set into the case).

In other words......I assume that the factors have already been factored in/accounted for.

BUT because reloading is DANGEROUS. It doesn't hurt to start low and work your way up. While watching for the classic signs (see above).

Indeed......the choice of bullet will be a big factor when hunting.

AND, there is a difference too......when looking for or attempting to get the "optimum". Consider: If you're using a bolt gun (or even single loading) .223 Rem. Because the COAL can be played with to a greater degree.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Koda]

My assumption of the various AR15 load data published by the BIG GUYS are that....

Unless otherwise stated somewhere.....

So then......
The cartridge produced will have taken in account the AR15's magazine length (aka: COAL) and by default, the bullet "depth" (amount set into the case).

So then if its "standard saami commercial specification" all in spec commercial ammo will fit inside an AR15 magazine?

 

[ma96782]

So then if its "standard saami commercial specification" all in spec commercial ammo will fit inside an AR15 magazine?

RE : Standard saami specs.
Note that : 9mm +P+ isn't even a saami standard.....but it (the ammo) exists on some shelves somewhere. SAFE? I figure the manufacturers who put it out there have figured that into their considerations.

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Do ALL .223 Rem commercially offered loads have to fit an AR's magazine?

Good question.

So then.....
On the short side.....
I haven't bought or studied or looked for bolt gun specific .223 Rem built ammo (with shooting Varmits in mind). And then, because .223 Rem could also be loaded for bolt guns too. Also, taking into account the twist rates that they like. Yeah.....I can see a manufacturer might just load specifically to the shorter/lighter weight bullets to be used with/for the varmit hunting guys.

As for the longer side?

Would I (as a manufacturer) put longer than magazine length cartridges out there for sale? Maybe. Maybe not.

Is there enough demand?

Profit be my guide.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Koda]

Do ALL .223 Rem commercially offered loads have to fit?

Good question.

Ok, so to answer my question above (was still researching this as you replied...) the answer as I see it is, yes.
SAAMI spec COAL is 2.260, so if a company states SAAMI spec load data and with a heavier (ie: longer) bullet then it cant exceed 2.260 which will fit in any AR15 magazine. Naturally the longer heavier bullets will protrude deeper.

(page 68)

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

 

[gmerkt]

The .223 Rem. is a pretty known "known," not much mystery there. You can save yourself a lot of trouble by using book data and working between the lower and upper range spread to tune to your rifle. Better yet, break out your chrono to verify the book(s). The deer isn't gonna notice the difference between 2,900 and 3,000 fps. At just about any book recommended velocity, terminal performance of the bullet will depend more upon bullet design than, say, 100 fps +/-.

As to secondary question. Depends on the guns, as others have said. My concerns were different than OP's. I have a couple of AR's, one Ruger 77 Mark II bolt action, and an old NEF single shot. The AR's will shoot anything, one is 1-7 bbl., the other is 1-9. The Ruger and the NEF are 1-12 so there is the bullet stabilization thing. BUT: What I discovered years ago, the Ruger will not shoot military design 55 gr. bullet with any accuracy. That is, FMJ. I had the same issue with a .222 Rem. I've read that it has to do with the angle of the leade in the rifling. So I keep ammo for the AR's and ammo for the bolt and single shot in two separate piles.

I don't have any science to cite. But if we were taking a poll, I'd vote on the side that the commercial ammunition factories do not load bullets in .223 Rem. longer than will fit in an AR magazine. Knowing that the vast majority of their .223 product is going to go out the barrel of a semi-auto, they are just gonna play it safe and load shorter.

 

[osprey]

Saami was created to address the concerns you have brought up and factory ammo should work in most all platforms your chosen cartridge is chambered in. Where things get funny is when you start loading for multiple guns in the same chambering. As mentioned above you have twist rate differences and slight differences in chamber dimensions due to the use of different reamers in different states of wear. Further more military rifles will often be cut on the loose end of saami specs for reliability in feeding all ammo in all conditions. The same chambering in target bolt gun may be cut on the tight end of saami specs. So if you develop loads for the military rifle and only bump shoulder back .002-.003" to prevent working brass excessively and then try said loads in the bolt gun you may find they will not chamber. I have run into this in my .308 guns and have decided to bump back only as much as needed to fit in bolt gun(.002") and just let the brass stretch a bit more in the 308 semi autos. To combat the brass working too much I will anneal after every firing, which is a good practice anyway. So basically I will end up making ammo with dimensions very close to factory ammo dimensions.

 

[deadeye]

my understanding is those heavier (ie, longer...) bullet loads were developed in bolt actions where they dont need to fit inside an AR15 magazine?

2.26 oal is standard max oal, some may be shorter based on weight and type such as hollow points. Further down the pages in the load data I linked to, you will see the data designed for "longer throats" with heavier bullets. There is a standard for most ammo for max oal so that it will chamber in most production firearms this also goes for the max pressure. This is why they don't suggest shooting 5.56 in a rifle that is chambered for 223 because some 5.56 is over the max 223 amounts per Saami specs.

 

[2ndtimer]

I put a single shot adapter in my Remington 700 SPS Varmint, so I could load any length I choose. Problem is that it has a 1 in 12" twist, which won't reliably stabilize bullets longer than 60 grains…

 

[Steel Head]

Gasser loads show issues early.
Torn rims, ejector flow and primer issues.
Don't get sporty or overthink them.
Get a decent speed, accuracy and function and go pew pew.
There's so much data out there that it's pretty easy to find a good combination to try, tune and run.