AR Pistol braces, let ATF know you opinion

[Wombat of Doom]

I have not actually gone through the process so you sound much more experienced. I am trying to learn all the details of NFA items quickly.

They are not as complicated as most people assume. I would reccomend form 1 ing an ar lower to get started. or buying a form 4 silencer to start out with.

 

[Kindrox]

They are not as complicated as most people assume. I would reccomend form 1 ing an ar lower to get started. or buying a form 4 silencer to start out with.

That is what I am interested in. With all the pistol brace nonsense going on, I spent an evening trying to learn the limitations of SBRs. Living on the border between two states, I have little motivation to own a SBR. But a suppressor sounds like good clean family fun.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

a .22 suppressor is a hoot.

 

[Kindrox]

I talked with a dealer yesterday, he recommended getting a 9mm suppressor rated for rifle use, and then just using it on all smaller calibers. My research suggests that you do not give a that much performance over a .223/.22 can. What is your experience?

Also it was his recommendation to stick with threads vs quick disconnect (on rifles). But then on some youtube videos people talked about QD for rifles. So I still have learning to do.

Having to check thread tightness every couple mags sounds like a pain. I would have thought someone would have invented a detent or something to address this.

 

[Defense Minister]

Personally, I believe they intentionally allowed these to be legal for a season so that they could intentionally make them NFA items later in order to create a larger registry of citizens who own these types of weapons. It's no coincidence that much of this had been thought through before the election, that they put their intentions on paper once Trump was defeated, and that they were so "gracious" to offer a streamlined process and forgiveness of the $200 fee... The government NEVER waives fees!

2nd draft coming soon. Biden/Harris will not let this fall through the cracks!

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I talked with a dealer yesterday, he recommended getting a 9mm suppressor rated for rifle use, and then just using it on all smaller calibers. My research suggests that you do not give a that much performance over a .223/.22 can. What is your experience?

Also it was his recommendation to stick with threads vs quick disconnect (on rifles). But then on some youtube videos people talked about QD for rifles. So I still have learning to do.

Having to check thread tightness every couple mags sounds like a pain. I would have thought someone would have invented a detent or something to address this.

Don't do it! Most rimfire cans are user servicable and .22 is filthy. A dedicated .22 can that can be taken apart and cleaned is a must. Centerfire I would go with a .45 can and a rifle can. Reason being most pistol cans are not rated for say, .223 or .308 or other common rifle calibers, and if they are, they are going to usually be too heavy to cycle on a pistol. .22 is about the most fun. (I do prefer .32acp suppressed, but I am a rarity there) The others are fun, but .22 is the least bang and the lowest buck so less bang for your bucks and generally the best value.

 

[Kindrox]

Wombat, my first application would be on a CZ Scorpion 9mm / 300BLK pistol / .223 rifle. Does the 9mm rifle rated can make the most sense for this application?

 

[wired]

My research says it is worse than that. Change to 300BLK on an AR15? You have to notify the ATF. Put in a .22LR kit? Notify the ATF. Change it back? Notify the ATF. They might make you change the engraving each time.

You won't be tinkering with an NFA firearm very much.

You need to do better research.

 

[wired]

I believe you have to notify them if you permanently alter the SBR. And the engraving would not change. MY name is my name and I have lived in the same place for a decade.

No, you dont. They ask you to so they can update the registry but that is not backed by law. There is no legal requirement forcing you to notify the ATF of length or caliber changes. You do not have to be able to quickly return it to its original configuration. Theres a lot of wives tales about NFA stuff. Going out of state? File one form by email once a year.

 

[Boboclown]

My research says it is worse than that. Change to 300BLK on an AR15? You have to notify the ATF. Put in a .22LR kit? Notify the ATF. Change it back? Notify the ATF. They might make you change the engraving each time.

You won't be tinkering with an NFA firearm very much.

You can change the upper all you want. The big thing is when going across state lines.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Wombat, my first application would be on a CZ Scorpion 9mm / 300BLK pistol / .223 rifle. Does the 9mm rifle rated can make the most sense for this application?

I think so. .223 does not suppressor that well imo. (Can't get rid of the supersonic crack without removing the point of .223) I would make certain it is rated for .223 and .300bo with your barrel length. The downside is the weight when you get a rifle rated suppressor. A lot are substantially heavier.

 

[3MTA3]

FWIW here is what OFF has to say about the withdrawal:

"In a notice dated today, Dec 23, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms announced the "withdrawal of a notice and request for comments entitled "Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with 'Stabilizing Braces'," that was published on December 18, 2020."

We told you about this proposal to regulate pistol braces here.

As you know, pistol braces have become a very popular accessory for some larger pistols and the ATF was proposing the requirement that "some" pistols with "some" pistol braces be considered short barrel rifles subject to NFA regulations.

This would have meant that literally millions of people could be turned into felons if they failed to register, as short barrel rifles, firearms that are perfectly legal today.

According to today's notice "Upon further consultation with the Department of Justice and the Office of the Deputy Attorney General, ATF is withdrawing, pending further Department of Justice review, the notice and request for comments entitled "Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with 'Stabilizing Braces'," that was published on December 18, 2020. 85 FR 82516."

This does not mean ATF will stop attempting to create new, confusing, and arbitrary rules that could entrap well meaning gun owners. But it appears the immediate threat has passed.

For all those who took time to share your comments with ATF about the proposed rule changes, we thank you for your activism and wish you a Merry Christmas."

 

[Kindrox]

I think so. .223 does not suppressor that well imo. (Can't get rid of the supersonic crack without removing the point of .223) I would make certain it is rated for .223 and .300bo with your barrel length. The downside is the weight when you get a rifle rated suppressor. A lot are substantially heavier.

I would use it now on a CZ Scorpion and 300BLK, but maybe one day on .233. The two I am choosing between are the big daddy
https://www.rexsilentium.com/MG10-Ultra-Rifle-Suppressor-358-p242959903

and the little brother.

MG7 K Rifle Suppressor 358 (9mm)

Standing on the shoulders of the GEN3 Honoris Rifle Suppressor, the MG7 pushes the suppression-centric design further. Now in a tubeless embodiment, we have leveraged the years of development and testing to craft a tough, light and above all, quiet suppressor. The MG7 was designed for more…

rexsilentium.com

Little brother is only 12oz/6 inches, and big daddy is 18oz and 9 inches but it has a 13db noise reduction on 300BLK. It does not have the noise level for both at 9mm.

3in and 6oz does not sound like significantly more, so I am leaning towards the big one.

 

[wired]

5.56 suppresses just fine. Difference between your ears ringing and a pleasant afternoon shooting. Most of the noise comes from down range.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

5.56 suppresses just fine. Difference between your ears ringing and a pleasant afternoon shooting. Most of the noise comes from down range.

The sonic crack is a little too loud for my ears, so I still need hearing pro with a .223. YMMV. Me, I still have ringing ears on a suppressed .223 rifle. (I use a 7.62 specwar) Admittedly I have a low tolerance for loud noise, which is odd considering I played guitar in punk and hardcore bands in the late 90s. But somehow I have hearing like a bat. I do find it the difference between plugs and muffs to just needing muffs.

 

[wired]

I find the sound of a suppressed 5.56 about the same as a 20 inch .22 rifle shooting 22 LR unsuppressed. Loud but not impossibly loud.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I find the sound of a suppressed 5.56 about the same as a 20 inch .22 rifle shooting 22 LR unsuppressed. Loud but not impossibly loud.

I would agree, and I'd need ear pro for both.

 

[Oleman]

The ATF needs to stop writing their own legislation. What part of "Shall not Infringe" are they having a problem with?

 

[Jabba]

I've seen probably 20 videos about the ATF letter and crackdown. I have yet to see anybody mention the widespread blatant USE of pistol braces as rifle stocks in videos all over youtube. Are we surprised that the ATF wants to treat them like SBR when the public is? If people had simply bought them with a nod and wink and refrained from posting themselves publicly using them as SBRs then we likely wouldn't be in this situation.

 

[Kindrox]

I've seen probably 20 videos about the ATF letter and crackdown. I have yet to see anybody mention the widespread blatant USE of pistol braces as rifle stocks in videos all over youtube. Are we surprised that the ATF wants to treat them like SBR when the public is? If people had simply bought them with a nod and wink and refrained from posting themselves publicly using them as SBRs then we likely wouldn't be in this situation.

Is that unreasonable? The ATF defines a pistol as a firearm designed and intended to shoot with one hand. The web is full of video's of folks shooting pistols two handed.

Instead of define pistols and rifles based on length/length of pull which at least is a logical distinction, they went with a crazy definition of one hand versus two hands. Have crazy rules, get crazy outcomes.