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AR 10.... is it a battle rifle or not?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by biker bo, May 19, 2011.

  1. biker bo

    biker bo Myrtle Creek Active Member

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    I will be picking up an Armalite AR 10 with 16" barrel and carry handle on Sunday. I'm looking forward to spending some time at the range with it. I'm sure it will be accurate and a lot of fun.

    What worries me is that when this discussion comes up the anti-AR crowed all point out that the ARs are not durable in the field.

    How much truth is there in this point of view? Is it just good old fashion "mine is better than yours because I say it is." I find it hard to believe that the U.S. would keep in service for 50 + years a weapon that's as bad as some have said.

    I was in the Navy so I never had the opportunity to carry an M 16 in combat and therefore can debate this with others.

    I currently have an FAL and I'm totally happy with it as a SHTF weapon. I hope the AR 10 will be there as well if needed.

    Thanks for any advice.
     
    wupddu and (deleted member) like this.
  2. caden08

    caden08 washougal Member

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    I think you will find yourself grabbing the AR over the FAL any day:)
     
  3. Old Hick

    Old Hick Oregon Active Member

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    It will be just fine.

    Remember, there are those that think Glock is the only plastic pistol out there, and all others are crap. same with some 1911 fans, they think those are the best, but those folks don't have an open mind. Not saying all that own above weapon think this way, but there are those out there that do. I work some folks that DO think that way and it is sad they won't even look or touch another weapon, because "theirs" is the best.

    I own all the above, and like them all. I prefer my xdm over them all, but that is just Personal preference.

    Your AR will be a great addition to your collection. Practice with it, and you'll be good to go.


    Stay Safe.
     
    SonicBlue03 and (deleted member) like this.
  4. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

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    I have one with the carry handle and a 20" bbl. It is my favorite 'fun' rifle. Best compensator and stays on target. Never fails to fire. 'nuff said.
     
  5. sir-kind78

    sir-kind78 Vancouver WA Member

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    Traded for a AR10 and yeah I am happy. My M1A was a bit heavier but I can shoot any grain 308 when the SA only took 150s unless you get an adjustable gas plug.

    I cant wait for a gas piston for my AR 10 next. I have to agree about being able to close up the AR over the M1A. I am in love also my AR10 takes the cheap FAL mags. Double plus if you already have a FAL.

    Couldnt be happier with my AR10. Enjoy!
     
  6. Unka-Boo

    Unka-Boo Milwaukie Active Member

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    No, it's a carbine.
     
  7. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    The AR10 is as "durable" as it's smaller counterpart the M16/AR15. Scaling the size up for the 7.62 does not effect anything but the weight. A 16" A2 style AR10 can be kept fairly light if you don't get carried away with rails, lights, lazers and other aftermarket "stuff".


    The M1A well handle up to 168 grain with the GI or SA gas piston. 175 grain or higher may need a grooved piston like Sadlak manufactures. The AR10 using anything over 175gr you should look at a heavier buffer or an adjustable gas tube. Both rifles basically want the same ammo.

    The AR10 uses a modified M14/M1A magazine. The DPMS LR-308 uses FAL style mags.
     
  8. sir-kind78

    sir-kind78 Vancouver WA Member

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    "The AR10 uses a modified M14/M1A magazine. The DPMS LR-308 uses FAL style mags."


    I think your not that familiar with the platform.

    Yes, the original AR-10 Stoner waffle 20 round magazines and the Knights Armament SR-25™ 10 & 20 round magazines will work as well as Iron Ridge and DPMS use magpul mags. Unless its a RRA its using the DPMS mags. Its the same mag.

    The RRA LAR 308 however uses a FAL style mag. I know because I have one and have educated myself with the differences.
    So far no feeding issues or anything but love from my RRA LAR8
     
  9. Unka-Boo

    Unka-Boo Milwaukie Active Member

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    Current Armalite AR10s ( '96(?) and up ) use an M14 pattern mag ( they originally used modified m14 mags because of availability during the '94 AWB )...most everyone else is using the SR25 pattern mags...
     
  10. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    And that's why the Army uses them ....

    Those anti-AR people just don't know what they are talking about.
     
  11. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a mis-type on my part. The RRA uses the FAL style as did the early Bushmaster .308. The DPMS/KAC/POF/Fulton use the SR25 type mag. Bushmaster MRC, the old Cobb Mfg used G3 mags as did the HK417. ArmaLite and Noveske use the modified M14 style which I think are the most reliable.

    Bushmaster could never get the FAL mags to feed reliably, RRA seems to have solved the problem.

    You missed to point I was making. You call your RRA a AR-10. It's not a AR-10, Only ArmaLite makes the AR-10. Possible you're not that familiar with the platform.
     
  12. Birdcaged

    Birdcaged USA New Member

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    Just keep up your maintenance and cleaning regimen and you should be alright.

    The U.S. Army has billions in tax payer monies to buy and replace parts as needed... of which you MUST do to keep this animal alive.

    I have to say I like the Armalite AR-10. Thats why I to bought one....(I also just sold it a few days ago) :) lol to a friend. They are good guns..they just need more TLC than I want to (also can afford to) have to give it.... It won't work for me if I ever have to use it.... in a bad situation...
    And you will be paying TWICE what everyone els will be paying for thier mags and at the moment no Magpul Pmags to get for it either...or any polymer that I know of... (I prefer polymer in the Stoner rifles because metal or aluminum jacks up the magwell more ... they can be better for alot of reasons though )

    I not saying an AR won't work by any means but I would want to be aware of any short comings of my rifle because there are problems.. It's not about who has that name brand or this or my rifle is prettier than yours... its about saving your family's lives and your life and killing bad guys when you need to. And like I tell all my friends that depend on the Stoner Platform if you have an AR and can afford the Fail Zero coating.. get it... because it just might save your life.

    FailZero

    Please watch a few short videos about it...
    [video=youtube;stxSvV5GHNU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stxSvV5GHNU[/video]

    [video=youtube;Ymz_P06n7JE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymz_P06n7JE&NR=1[/video]

    Then the main thing you have to worry about with your Stoner gun is the springs and extractor.
    Please pay attention to your Extractor....

    For more information about "maintenance and cleaning regimen" Please read these articles by Mike Pannone.

    (He is a former operational member of U.S. Marine Reconnaissance, U.S. Army Special Forces, and specially selected elements of the Joint Special Operations Command. He has participated in stabilization, combat and high risk protection operations in support of U.S. policies throughout the world as both an active duty military member and a defense contractor. He currently instructs U.S. military, law enforcement, and private citizens throughout the country. He can be contacted via Blackheart International, LLC.)

    CTT-Solutions.com - Articles

    He is on the other side of the Stoner Platform discussion than me. But I respect his info about the rifle because hes alot more honest than some folks. (By his bio he is a little biast.. lol we did pay to keep his gun running that whole time) Those articles are mostly about the M4/m16/AR whatever you want to call them in 5.56 not the 7.62x51 AR-10 that you have but it will give you alot better understanding of how they work and how they fail.

    I'm not saying you don't know what your talking about I don't know any of you from adam. You probably know alot more about all this than me . I just wanted to add my $0.02.

    Hope it helps and Congrats on the NEW AR-10...... I couldn't put mine down for weeks....

    What model did you get? I had the A4 with the flat top.

    P.S. I think if the U.S. Armed forces were forced to have a 5.56 rifle it should have been the:
    Be sure and go read about it.... :)
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2011
  13. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    The .308 platform should not take any more preventive maintenance than it's smaller sister. They do like to run wetter than a typical AR15, keep the BCG wet and you should be gtg. You should see the same reliability as the AR15 also. Run a few hundred rounds of surplus through the rifle, make sure it's feeding correct, buffer weight and spring is doing it's job. There is a glut of NATO surplus on the market at .36 a round, that's cheap for a big bore rifle.

    ArmaLite has lowered the msrp on it's Gen II mags, only10-15 bucks more than cheap plastic mags. Price factory DPMS mags or any other SR25 style and see what they cost, more than ArmaLites. $20 or $30 mags are nothing compared to the cost of the rifles, $1500-to $3500, another 20 bucks makes little difference.
     
  14. ORHunter79

    ORHunter79 ... Active Member

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    Been shooting this platform for almost 13 years. Accuracy is outstanding, can't say enough about that. Reliability is....good, if it's clean. If you shoot it "in the field", it will probably malfunction when it's get's dirty. Dirty meaning 300 rounds fired while running, crawling, etc.

    I'm not anti-AR, just call it like I've experienced it. If you plan on taking it to the range every now and then, you'll be fine. Keep it clean and I think you'll enjoy your rifle.

    If you want a SHTF rifle, get an AK47. Cheap ammo, accurate enough and I dare you to try to get it to jam. ;-)
     
  15. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

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    Just leave the safety disengaged and it's bound to happen when you do any crawling.
     
  16. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    I would ask this question: Do you plan to enter a combat zone with it? If you are like most of us here, the answer is 'no' . Regardless of whether or not the AR10 is as worry free as an AK after swimming through quicksand is moot, as 'in the field' for most of us means occasionally walking through the woods looking for a deer or a trip to the local rock pit.

    I own plenty of rifles that I enjoy shooting but, for a variety of reasons, wouldn't be my first, second or third choice for anything other than a trip to the range. All of my Mosins, Mausers and Mannlichers fall into that category because of the slow rate of fire. Nor would I take my 10-22 (small caliber), SVT-40 (low magazine capacity) or HK-91 (the G3 is quite possibly the most ungainly, awkwardly balanced battlerifle ever made) .

    The point is, if you think you would enjoy shooting it, buy it and have some fun. If you decide you don't like it, sell it.

    Keith (FWIW, my go-to emergency rifle is a cheap old ban-era WASR in x39.)
     
  17. Unka-Boo

    Unka-Boo Milwaukie Active Member

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    Sure, use logic.....we'll see where you are when the Zombies/SHTF/Armageddon/Cannibal Post Apocalyptic Doom comes to town!
     
  18. MikeSettles

    MikeSettles Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    I have lots (40+ years) of experience with the M16-platform (USMC Boot Camp w/M14). None with the AR-10. M16s are pretty robust when kept clean/appropriately lubed. They WON'T, however take the same punishment as an M14 or FAL and keep "ticking".

    Battle Rifle: Assault rifles are selective-fire weapons which use medium-power cartridges. 5.56mm, 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39, etc. "Battle Rifles" used heavier, higher power ammunition, and though they may be selective-fire, most are used ONLY in semi-auto mode because the recoil makes them unmanageable in full-auto. Examples include M1 Garand, M14, Tokarev, German G-43 and G3, CETME, FAL. Most of these were produced from WWII until the world switched to Assault Rifle calibers in the late 60's/70's. They also usually have bayonet lugs, and may have rifle-grenade launchers built in (French MAS-49) or as attachments (M1 Garand).

    Historically, until we got "Assault Rifles", the basic infantry small arm was always a "battle rifle", from the time that we switched from smooth-bore muskets. The M1903 Springfield and M1917 Enfield were "battle rifles" to the Doughboys of WWI.

    Cheers!
     
  19. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    This debate can be carried to the extreme. When the Russians so totally overran the Georgians a few years back (with third tier reservists I might add), the Georgians abandoned their Bushmasters in the street en masse and the Russians refused to even pick them up as war booty. They've always regarded them as junk. And they might be right too. Are there any 50 year old M16s being found in the hands of the Mujahhadin or Jihadists in Iraq or Afghanistan these days? There are plenty of 50 year old AKs still in use, and the only care they've ever received is an occasional bore cleaning with motor oil and a shoestring. When the Russians acquired their first battlefield pickup M16s from Vietnam, they weren't overtly impressed, as they adopted none of the features into the AK design. That new 5.56x45 round, though...that really caught their attention.

    I'll still stand by my initial response though. Since none of us are ever gong to abuse their rifles as would be done in a sustained combat condition, the point is really moot.

    Keith
     
  20. ogre

    ogre Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I think that the Portuguese soldiers who used the AR10s in Angola and Mozambique would agree they were fine rifles.