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Anybody seen 44 special loaded with Ramshot Enforcer? Somebody have Quickload?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by WillaminaOR, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. WillaminaOR

    WillaminaOR Near Willamina, OR Member

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    I've started loading 44 Special for a Ruger Flat Top. I've seen high pressure loads in magazine and internet articles, up to and including H110. I do not have H110 but I do have Enforcer. In one of the articles they said Enforcer was very similar to H110. Not finding any loading data right off. Anybody here come across any? How accurate is quickload? Someone here have quickload and can run some numbers for me?

    Thanks,
    Bryan
     
  2. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    I have QuickLOAD - It's a very capable and accurate program.

    Accolades aside, it is just software, and without published data to back it up...
     
  3. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    If Enforcer is "like" H110 (or W296 for that matter) you'll need to be very cautious of reduced loads. H110 and W296 can detonate if the charge is too small. Detonate=explosion, not controlled burn like wanted. In other words, you could blow up that fine Flattop.
    If that Ruger is on the "big" frame like a 41, 44 or 45, you can do some spectacular things. If it's on the newer "small" frame, I'd advise against pushing the limit.
    My new sierra manual does have some listings for H110, but nothing for Enforcer.
     
  4. WillaminaOR

    WillaminaOR Near Willamina, OR Member

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    It's this sexy little beast right here, http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=RURNVB-444-SPCL Found it on Armslist because a friend showed some interest in a revolver. Friend passed on it and the seller unfortunately made it far to easy for me to buy it. Luckily the wife doesn't seem to have noticed.

    It is indeed the smaller frame. The articles I've seen take that into account and put a suggested pressure limit of 30,000psi.

    In one of those articles, the author said Enforcer was designed to be similar to H110, I don't think it has such a narrow load window though.

    What data do you need to plug into Quickload? I'd like the 240 Hornady XTP, Enforcer, Star line brass, Winchester LPP... I don't plan on just loading up a max suggested load and pulling the trigger. Does the program give you a graph or something? I'll double check the potential detonation issue.

    Bryan
     
    orygun likes this.
  5. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    Bryan

    I'll work up a couple of loads tomorrow afternoon and post the pressures / graphs (based on 240gr XTP).

    Jason
     
  6. scrandall01215

    scrandall01215 Washougal,WA Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't find anything. And I use Enforcer a lot its a good mag powder.

    Stacy
     
  7. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    1: For AMUSEMENT PURPOSES ONLY!
    2: There's NO PUBLISHED DATA to validate these loads.
    3: DO NOT USE!
    4: See 1, 2, & 3!

    That said, Enforcer seems to be very inefficient in the 44 Special.

    enforcer1_zpshtkmqh8x.jpg

    enforcer2_zpshteognea.jpg

    enforcer3_zps7skuoq4z.jpg

    enforcer1_zpspkpimidj.jpg

    enforcer2_zpsiuzawawg.jpg

    enforcer3_zpsu5fsujjd.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  8. WillaminaOR

    WillaminaOR Near Willamina, OR Member

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    What does it do if you let the pressure go as high as 30,000? I dumped some Enforcer into a case up to about seated depth, looks like almost exactly 19gr.

    Also, I don't know how much difference it would make but the bbl length on mine is 4.625".

    Thanks,
    Bryan
     
  9. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    I believe 44 SPL Pmax is 15,500.

    I wouldn't think of attempting mag pressures.

    .02
     
  10. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    19gr puts Pmax @ 7K over SAAMI.
     
  11. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    enforcer4_zpswx70vwqb.jpg
     
  12. WillaminaOR

    WillaminaOR Near Willamina, OR Member

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    Yeah I know saami sets the max pressure pretty low on 44 special, just like they do on 45 colt. I'm loading for a Ruger Blackhawk though, made with modern manufacturing, designs, steels, 30,000 is listed as safe with good margin by people I'd respect the opinion of. Strangely enough, Ramshot lists 30k loads for the 45 colt. I guess they just don't see enough demand to develop high pressure loads for the 44 special yet.

    Are you saying QuickLOAD predicts that 19gr would put pressure at 22.5k? What sort of velocity does it predict out of a 4.625 bbl?

    Thanks,
    Bryan
     
  13. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the 'results' box in the image above it shows 1,086fp from a 19gr charge out of a 4.625" barrel.
     
  14. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Do not confuse small frame Ruger Blackhawks with Large frame Blackhawks!
    While I agree with the theory that newer guns are made of better materials, and that Ruger uses some of the finest, you're working with a gun that can handle high pressures when chambered in 357, but you're dealing with a .429" bullet, not a .357. The cylinder walls are thinner. You wanna push it, buy a large frame version and go to it.
    I don't have the small frame handy (traded it to a friend) to be able to compare cylinder diameter, but all of the 45 Colt/Blackhawk loading data is based on the large version of the frame.
    I'm not afraid to push the limits, but I always have data to back me up.
    You have a wonderful handgun. If you blow it up it's one thing. If you lose fingers or eyes, it's another.

    My thoughts would be to not use the powder which you have no data. Use what you can that has some pressure data. If you choose to push those limits some, so be it.

    Ya wanna "get it on"? I have a .41 Mag for sale (Old Model) we could do some old fashioned "horse trading".
     
  15. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    What does 'look' mean? Did you weigh it?
     
  16. WillaminaOR

    WillaminaOR Near Willamina, OR Member

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  17. WillaminaOR

    WillaminaOR Near Willamina, OR Member

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    What I mean by look is that I almost filled a case and dumped a bit out until I looked like it was just below where the base of the bullet would seat to, then I weighed what was left in the case, 19gr. I'd almost guaranty that a person could get 19.5-20gr in there. Most likely compressed by 20gr though.

    Actual max charge in a 44 mag, with the 240XTP, and Enforcer, is 22gr. That's strait from Ramshot's reloading guide. How does the graph look for that compared to 19-20gr in the special? Charge efficiency? I also see that Ramshot does not have anything to say about reducing charges with Enforcer like Hodgdon does about H110.

    Thanks,
    Bryan

    Ps, this is all theoretical until I find some more data or run this past someone with vastly more experience than I that says it'd be a ok. Maybe the lab guys at Ramshot would take a look at it, the CSR on the other end of the email just about snubbed me.
     
  18. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Bryan,
    Thanks for the link. I always wondered where Ross went. Always loved reading his stuff.

    I'll hop on your bandwagon for a bit. After reading the manuals, making comparisons and generalizations, I have a thought.
    IF I were to try it, I'd start at about 14gr behind a 240gr bullet. IF you try it, though, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN! :D
    CSR people don't always have any technical knowledge and aren't likely to do anything but cover their behinds. If I were you, I'd try getting some help from a tech line of one of the bullet companies.

    Sierra has a free tech support line 1-800-223-8799 They list Enforcer in the 44 Mag, but not the Special. Maybe they have some insight for you.
     
  19. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    @Benchrest,
    Thanks for posting the quick load charts. Those are pretty interesting. How difficult is the program to use?
     
  20. SinisterSouthpaw

    SinisterSouthpaw SW WA Active Member

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    yes Quickload is a nice easy program I like it and use it---BUT---I would have started here:
    http://www.ramshot.com/load-data/


    Hint: if a powder maker does not list a powder as usable in a cartridge there is usually a good reason, since they want to sell powder to as many people using as many cartridges as possible. Load data from unofficial sources must be viewed with caution, if not suspicion--hence the warning on the first page of QL........