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Any pistol carbines that aren't blowback?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Bigfoot, Feb 22, 2015.

  1. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    9mm and 40 are too powerful for blowback operation in handguns but in carbines I can only find a few that lockup. Can anyboby explain?

    Here's the carbine style I'm looking for, but preferably in 40. 414-355-CMR-30_1.jpg

    But locks up like a rifle cartridge. Also, buffer tubes are out. So are supersonic velocties. This would be a backyard/coyote gun mostly.
     
  2. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    :s0158:
     
  3. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The new Sig Sauer MPX has what you're looking for, but it's not coming to a gun store near you for awhile.
     
  4. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    MPX-C-Detail-L.jpg

    I saw that but I didn't realize it used an unlocking bolt. Better accuracy, less recoil, less gasses in the right eye.

    Yep that'll do if they allow us to have them.
     
  5. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The one in your picture is the real problem child right now for Sig.
    They got cute with the ATF and are involved in a lengthy law suite over their interpretation of what constitutes a pinned flash hider/mono core suppressor to make their short barreled rifle legal length.

    What you want is the short barrel version with the Sig brace, or better yet the 8 1/2" pistol version and then apply for a form 1 to make it into an SBR and then add the stock shown in your post.
    They are all suppressor ready.
    The receivers are made to switch between 9mm, 4o s&w and .357 Sig calibers with no tools.
    I have money down on one so I will be first in line when they show up at my favorite gun store.

    These are Sigs vision of a poor mans HK MP5
    mpx-cat.jpg
     
  6. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    I can see what they tried but I'm sure Sig can find some 16.1" barrel stock for the US.

    POOR mans MP5? I like it better than the roller delay.
     
  7. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I do too, that's why I am patiently waiting for one to show up.
     
  8. MikeE

    MikeE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Here you go:
    upload_2015-2-22_18-6-0.png
     
  9. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    The Tommy gun originally used a blish lock.
    They removed it in WWII. And it worked fine.:D

    The mass of the bolt needed for any blowback carbine would make it a little heavier I suppose. But the simplicity and reliability would be worth it.

    And there are 9mm/45 blowback handguns.;)

    subguns 003.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  10. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  11. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I am so confused here. What do you mean, "9mm and 40 are too powerful for blowback operation in handguns", isn't that how most handguns operate?????

    I am not sure where you are finding pistol caliber rifles that have locking bolts, usually there is not enough power to operate them.

    Why can't you have buffer tubes and supersonic ammo? Every 9mm AR has one and can shoot supersonic ammo......

    I know the Desert Eagle handguns are gas operated and have a rotating bolt, but they are not rifles.......
     
  12. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    Your confused? You should be!

    The norm in a pistol is a barrel that stays locked to the slide for the first 1/4'' or so of travel. Then with a cam surface. Or link. The barrel is unlocked from the slide. You loose the mass of the barrel. But keep the recoil spring resistance and the mass of the slide. The slide keeps moving rearwards. Ejecting the shell.

    Yes Deaeert Eagles are gas operated. But don't forget lugers toggle lock. CZ 52 roller locked. And HK's P7 gas retarded system with fluted chamber.

    Then you have nifty little guns like the 32 Seacamp [Seecamp?] .
    It has a bulge like area in the chamber. It uses the bulge in the fired and deformed brass to retard the ejection.

    Revolvers have there varieations also. Like the COP 357 with four barrels and firing pins. With a rotating hammer.
    Or the 1895 Nagant. With it's gas check system. It moves the cylinder forward when it's cocked to form a seal. The ammo looks a little freaky too?

    There are even variations on blowback Carbines. The PS-90 is a blowback. But the barrel also moves back about a 1/16th '' with recoil.
     
  13. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    Good add Medic ;) The MAC series and High Points are also straight, unlocked blowback.

    Almost all 9mm and up handguns lock the action via Browning tilt barrel, rotating barrel, etc.

    Buffer tube is out because I want a folding stock.

    Supersonic is out because of the noise and also I didn't want someone suggesting a different caliber.

    Desert Eagle doesn't make a carbine with the same system as their handguns.
     
  14. Truenorth

    Truenorth Pacific Northwet Active Member

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    Now I'm confused. How's that Sig pistol not an SBR? Must be over 26" with the stock collapsed right?

    And why on earth would Sig poke the ATF with a stick after just dodging the bullet with that Sig brace fiasco. Like anybody would ever strap that stupid thing to their fore arm and use it "properly". Come on.


    Back to the topic at hand...

    The Taurus Circuit Judge is kind of an odd little carbine but I'd bet it barely kicks at all with .45LC ammo.
    Looks heavy enough, I haven't handled one yet.
    Might be fun to shoot, at least it has a swing out cylinder.

    Wonder if you can shoot .45 Auto with moon clips in those things?
     
  15. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    No but the Desert Eagle can be had with a sixteen inch barrel!:s0140:

    If you want .44 magnum. How about the Deerfield Ruger? It has a rotating bolt like the mini-14.

    Heck. May as well get a 30 carbine. Rotating bolt and five pounds.

    wwII 009.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  16. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    26" is the max length when stock extended, not folded.

    Check out the Styer GB. It's a gas delayed system, not gas operated. Still neat though not only cause it's different but the barrel doesn't move.

    steyrgb07.jpg
     
    Medic! likes this.
  17. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    I can top that.:)I have a Taurus Thunderbolt pump with a 28" barrel in 45C.

    I thought about a M1 carbine 9mm conversion and I found one. It said it was blowback operated.:mad: Guess they plugged the gas port.
     
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  18. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    My first try was the 45C pump. Very difficult to scope, difficult to suppress and it would be the length of a civil war rifle if I did. It does lockup the action very well though.:D

    The Mech-Tec looked perfect on paper, doublestack mags(glock even) but I don't like feeling that heavy bolt coming back adding to the recoil. Plus it shoots paperplate sized groups at 10 yrds. :mad: The big scope was me attempting to isolated the problem. 005.JPG
     
  19. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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  20. MikeE

    MikeE Portland Well-Known Member

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    No - 38-.357 , also 44 mag, and 45LC. The 44mag is easiest to find. Thanks, 'Remlin', the corporate touch that turns gold into crap.