Another 737 catches fire

[Ura-Ki]

Prelim NTSB report out on the Denver 737-800 fire!
Lots to unpack, but another Boeing failure that should really force Boeing to take a REAL long and hard look at what it's doing and to decide if it wants to continue to exist as a airplane manufacture or not, I would imaging Ol William Boeing would be rolling in his grave seeing how the company he built has been run into the ground with such groase mismanagement, incompetence, complacency, and a bunch of other issues, basically when you think your too big to fail, you HAVE failed!

View: https://youtu.be/MejaFhYigCU?si=x2LthmlRyHAYSNKI

I absolutely REFUSE to put my life at risk aboard any Boeing product unless and until they clean up their act and get back to what put them on the map in the first place, and I recommend others do the same, when making travel arrangements demand a flight on any other manufactures ships, NOT a Boeing!


Now, the Report!
I am not surprised to learn what happened, this lands on several Turbine Engine Techs feet as well as their boss's and inspectors who signed off on it and returned it to flying status! The fuel guy, the fan tech, and the boss who issued the repair order and signed off on it, and finally, the inspector who signed off and returned it to service needs fired, as well as the corporate exec who pushed the repairs and applied the pressure of time and expense for an engine down in overhaul/inspection!
These is absolutely ZERO excuses for what Should and IS a very strict set of procedures for these engines, it's literally as stupid proof as it is humanly possible to make it, for this very reason, any monkey that can read and follow photos should have "The Book" out on the bench with his left hand pointer finger on the exact step he is working on at that exact moment, and the corresponding part or tool in the other hand that precisely matches that step! If you don't know how to properly perform any task within that area of work on these engines, you have ZERO business working anywhere near one of these engines, PERIOD! As Juan Brown points out with Safety Wire 101, it's so simple, it's stupid, how the hell could anyone who has done any amount of Safety Wiring get it wrong? Worse, how the hell do you not know how to properly apply thread sealant to a component, especially when "The Book" explains in exacting details exactly how to do it properly! As to the cracked parts,, that could be any number is issues, BUT, it's almost certain that they were improperly installed in the first place, likely not properly balanced and or installed in the incorrect order or sequence, these thing are EXACT in balance and tolerances, even the slightest mistake could lead to a catastrophic failure!
This was a stacking of tolerances that all compounded into one giant fur-ball, the vibration issue is what likely led to exacerbating the fuel leak to the point of causing the fire, the thread sealant only increasing the fuel quantity enough to lead to combustion and fire! With out the vibration, the fuel leaks would not likely have been enough to cause a fire, at least for a while longer, but over time, it could increase, or it could be allowed to pool enough until it was of sufficient quantity to ignite, the vibration issue likely caused both fuel leaks to increase to the point of providing enough fuel quantity for combustion! Even with the fuel system shut down and the circuit breakers thrown and master power switched off, the line pressure in these systems can reach several thousands of PSI, and the quantity of fuel available downstream of the last control source could be several gallons or pounds under enormous pressure, so your going to have a rather large fire for a relatively small quantity of fuel!

 

[WAW44]

Prelim NTSB report out on the Denver 737-800 fire!
Lots to unpack, but another Boeing failure that should really force Boeing to take a REAL long and hard look at what it's doing and to decide if it wants to continue to exist as a airplane manufacture or not, I would imaging Ol William Boeing would be rolling in his grave seeing how the company he built has been run into the ground with such groase mismanagement, incompetence, complacency, and a bunch of other issues, basically when you think your too big to fail, you HAVE failed!

View: https://youtu.be/MejaFhYigCU?si=x2LthmlRyHAYSNKI

I absolutely REFUSE to put my life at risk aboard any Boeing product unless and until they clean up their act and get back to what put them on the map in the first place, and I recommend others do the same, when making travel arrangements demand a flight on any other manufactures ships, NOT a Boeing!


Now, the Report!
I am not surprised to learn what happened, this lands on several Turbine Engine Techs feet as well as their boss's and inspectors who signed off on it and returned it to flying status! The fuel guy, the fan tech, and the boss who issued the repair order and signed off on it, and finally, the inspector who signed off and returned it to service needs fired, as well as the corporate exec who pushed the repairs and applied the pressure of time and expense for an engine down in overhaul/inspection!
These is absolutely ZERO excuses for what Should and IS a very strict set of procedures for these engines, it's literally as stupid proof as it is humanly possible to make it, for this very reason, any monkey that can read and follow photos should have "The Book" out on the bench with his left hand pointer finger on the exact step he is working on at that exact moment, and the corresponding part or tool in the other hand that precisely matches that step! If you don't know how to properly perform any task within that area of work on these engines, you have ZERO business working anywhere near one of these engines, PERIOD! As Juan Brown points out with Safety Wire 101, it's so simple, it's stupid, how the hell could anyone who has done any amount of Safety Wiring get it wrong? Worse, how the hell do you not know how to properly apply thread sealant to a component, especially when "The Book" explains in exacting details exactly how to do it properly! As to the cracked parts,, that could be any number is issues, BUT, it's almost certain that they were improperly installed in the first place, likely not properly balanced and or installed in the incorrect order or sequence, these thing are EXACT in balance and tolerances, even the slightest mistake could lead to a catastrophic failure!
This was a stacking of tolerances that all compounded into one giant fur-ball, the vibration issue is what likely led to exacerbating the fuel leak to the point of causing the fire, the thread sealant only increasing the fuel quantity enough to lead to combustion and fire! With out the vibration, the fuel leaks would not likely have been enough to cause a fire, at least for a while longer, but over time, it could increase, or it could be allowed to pool enough until it was of sufficient quantity to ignite, the vibration issue likely caused both fuel leaks to increase to the point of providing enough fuel quantity for combustion! Even with the fuel system shut down and the circuit breakers thrown and master power switched off, the line pressure in these systems can reach several thousands of PSI, and the quantity of fuel available downstream of the last control source could be several gallons or pounds under enormous pressure, so your going to have a rather large fire for a relatively small quantity of fuel!

Why is this a Boring failure and not AA maintenance failure? I have not watched the video, but it's an 800 series AC ( 13 year old N885NN). It's not like it rolled off the factory floor a month ago.

 

[made in china]

Prelim NTSB report out on the Denver 737-800 fire!
Lots to unpack, but another Boeing failure that should really force Boeing to take a REAL long and hard look at what it's doing and to decide if it wants to continue to exist as a airplane manufacture or not, I would imaging Ol William Boeing would be rolling in his grave seeing how the company he built has been run into the ground with such groase mismanagement, incompetence, complacency, and a bunch of other issues, basically when you think your too big to fail, you HAVE failed!

View: https://youtu.be/MejaFhYigCU?si=x2LthmlRyHAYSNKI

I absolutely REFUSE to put my life at risk aboard any Boeing product unless and until they clean up their act and get back to what put them on the map in the first place, and I recommend others do the same, when making travel arrangements demand a flight on any other manufactures ships, NOT a Boeing!


Now, the Report!
I am not surprised to learn what happened, this lands on several Turbine Engine Techs feet as well as their boss's and inspectors who signed off on it and returned it to flying status! The fuel guy, the fan tech, and the boss who issued the repair order and signed off on it, and finally, the inspector who signed off and returned it to service needs fired, as well as the corporate exec who pushed the repairs and applied the pressure of time and expense for an engine down in overhaul/inspection!
These is absolutely ZERO excuses for what Should and IS a very strict set of procedures for these engines, it's literally as stupid proof as it is humanly possible to make it, for this very reason, any monkey that can read and follow photos should have "The Book" out on the bench with his left hand pointer finger on the exact step he is working on at that exact moment, and the corresponding part or tool in the other hand that precisely matches that step! If you don't know how to properly perform any task within that area of work on these engines, you have ZERO business working anywhere near one of these engines, PERIOD! As Juan Brown points out with Safety Wire 101, it's so simple, it's stupid, how the hell could anyone who has done any amount of Safety Wiring get it wrong? Worse, how the hell do you not know how to properly apply thread sealant to a component, especially when "The Book" explains in exacting details exactly how to do it properly! As to the cracked parts,, that could be any number is issues, BUT, it's almost certain that they were improperly installed in the first place, likely not properly balanced and or installed in the incorrect order or sequence, these thing are EXACT in balance and tolerances, even the slightest mistake could lead to a catastrophic failure!
This was a stacking of tolerances that all compounded into one giant fur-ball, the vibration issue is what likely led to exacerbating the fuel leak to the point of causing the fire, the thread sealant only increasing the fuel quantity enough to lead to combustion and fire! With out the vibration, the fuel leaks would not likely have been enough to cause a fire, at least for a while longer, but over time, it could increase, or it could be allowed to pool enough until it was of sufficient quantity to ignite, the vibration issue likely caused both fuel leaks to increase to the point of providing enough fuel quantity for combustion! Even with the fuel system shut down and the circuit breakers thrown and master power switched off, the line pressure in these systems can reach several thousands of PSI, and the quantity of fuel available downstream of the last control source could be several gallons or pounds under enormous pressure, so your going to have a rather large fire for a relatively small quantity of fuel!

110% agree Boeing has lost it's way, they've become a shareholder shill.

Didn't watch the video as I was under the impression it was an engine fire.
How is that Boeing's fault?
Boeing doesn't design or manufactured engines, nor do they have anything to do with engine maintenance.

What I did see that's Boeing's "fault" is that on the -800 passengers are expected to evacuate onto the wing, and someone is supposed to remember to have the flaps down during an emergency so that passengers can safely slide off the wing. Now that's a half-donkey idea....

 

[Ura-Ki]

R.E, Bowings fault!
Boeing didn't have the alert system to show an engine fire installed in that airframe, even through it is Required, it was either missing or non functioning! Boeing didn't install the door and slide assemblies properly which forced the over wing evac.

 

[Provincial]

There is another issue with the 737, where failure of the fan drive system can lead to lubrication oil burning in the compressor section of the engine. The bleed air from the compressor section is used to pressurize the cabin/cockpit and keep them supplied with fresh air. Smoke appears in either the cockpit or cabin, depending on which engine is affected. The NTSB recently released an Urgent Safety Recommendation on737's powered by the LEAP-1B engines concerning this.

I take issue with the advice from the NTSB, in that their suggested response recommends a lengthy procedure before taking action to block the smoke entering the aircraft, but at least the issue is now out in the open, thanks to Mentour Pilot and Blancolirio and many airline pilots spreading the word about it.

 

[Provincial]

The Denver incident came from two failures. First, there was no effective system to alert the crew to the engine compartment fire in that particular circumstance. This is where something happened outside of the parameters the engineers (and the FAA Certification) expected.

The second is the failure of the passengers to wait for instructions from the cabin crew and opened the over-wing exit on their own initiative. The cabin crew took a while to determine which exits were safe to use, but this was because it was unclear where the fire had spread to and their first responsibility was to move the passengers away from the hazard.

It is important to recognize that the cabin crew did an excellent job, understanding that they have limits on controlling passengers who fail to follow briefings and instructions.

It is also important to recognize that the ramp crew did an excellent job of responding to the fire, including evacuating the wayward passengers off the wing. Special recognition (and in my opinion, the Presidential Citizens Medal), should be given to the ramp person who attacked the fire on his own initiative, limiting the spread and allowing the safe evacuation of the occupants. The Presidential Citizens Medal is given to someone "who has performed exemplary deeds or services for his or her country or fellow citizens."

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Video of a 787 wing slicing through the tail of an airbus today.

Vietnam Airlines suspends 4 pilots after Boeing jet collides with parked Airbus on runway, slicing through tail fin

A Ho Chi Minh City-bound Boeing 787 was taxiing for takeoff when it struck a Airbus A321, parked on the tarmac, waiting to depart for Dien Bien.

nypost.com

 

[Lilhigbee]

Video of a 787 wing slicing through the tail of an airbus today.

Vietnam Airlines suspends 4 pilots after Boeing jet collides with parked Airbus on runway, slicing through tail fin

A Ho Chi Minh City-bound Boeing 787 was taxiing for takeoff when it struck a Airbus A321, parked on the tarmac, waiting to depart for Dien Bien.

nypost.com

Boeing's fault!!

 

[Provincial]

Relying on depth perception when taxiing is proving inadequate. Most pilots are trained to keep the nosewheel centered on the center line painted on the taxiway, which was supposed to provide adequate guidance for avoiding hazards. As passenger aircraft became both larger and longer, with longer wingspans, the clearance became smaller, and if a long aircraft was sitting with its tail toward the taxiway, there are times when a collision is possible. If the parked aircraft doesn't pull up as far forward as possible, the situation becomes even worse, and it is very hard for the taxiing aircraft crew to tell if the parked aircraft is hanging back.

Remember, the wingtips of a passenger jet are way behind the cockpit, and sweep back. This makes it even harder for the pilots to determine if the tip will clear the obstacle.

 

[made in china]

Relying on depth perception when taxiing is proving inadequate. Most pilots are trained to keep the nosewheel centered on the center line painted on the taxiway, which was supposed to provide adequate guidance for avoiding hazards. As passenger aircraft became both larger and longer, with longer wingspans, the clearance became smaller, and if a long aircraft was sitting with its tail toward the taxiway, there are times when a collision is possible. If the parked aircraft doesn't pull up as far forward as possible, the situation becomes even worse, and it is very hard for the taxiing aircraft crew to tell if the parked aircraft is hanging back.

Remember, the wingtips of a passenger jet are way behind the cockpit, and sweep back. This makes it even harder for the pilots to determine if the tip will clear the obstacle.

At every airport in the US that handles passenger service, aircraft models are assigned to certain terminals. On the pavement, guidance lines and boxes are painted and they even include painting the aircraft model numbers on the pavement.
If you look out the terminal, you'll see something like A320 and 737-800 painted on the ground with corresponding paint lines.

The taxi lines are painted on the pavement with all of the clearances taken into account.
The pilot needs to keep the nose wheel on the taxi lines, and the ground crew needs to help the pilot park within the lines appropriate for the aircraft they're operating.

The last few allisions and near misses have been because the aircraft either went way past the stop bar or weren't located properly in the outlined areas near the terminal. Could also be a pilot going way off the taxi lines.

If everyone just paid attention to the pavement markings, there wouldn't be so many accidents

 

[Provincial]

At every airport in the US that handles passenger service, aircraft models are assigned to certain terminals. On the pavement, guidance lines and boxes are painted and they even include painting the aircraft model numbers on the pavement.
If you look out the terminal, you'll see something like A320 and 737-800 painted on the ground with corresponding paint lines.

The taxi lines are painted on the pavement with all of the clearances taken into account.
The pilot needs to keep the nose wheel on the taxi lines, and the ground crew needs to help the pilot park within the lines appropriate for the aircraft they're operating.

The last few allisions and near misses have been because the aircraft either went way past the stop bar or weren't located properly in the outlined areas near the terminal. Could also be a pilot going way off the taxi lines.

If everyone just paid attention to the pavement markings, there wouldn't be so many accidents

The one in Florida was on a taxiway that wasn't rated for the large taxiing aircraft, but in use while the proper taxiway was out of service. Otherwise, this is how it is supposed to work.

My point is that the margin of error has been reduced. That is a major contributing factor.

 

[Tony617]

Video of a 787 wing slicing through the tail of an airbus today.

Vietnam Airlines suspends 4 pilots after Boeing jet collides with parked Airbus on runway, slicing through tail fin

A Ho Chi Minh City-bound Boeing 787 was taxiing for takeoff when it struck a Airbus A321, parked on the tarmac, waiting to depart for Dien Bien.

nypost.com

I was reading some the comments of this story and some are very funny. But regardless no passengers were injured and jetliners can be repaired.

 

[made in china]

The one in Florida was on a taxiway that wasn't rated for the large taxiing aircraft, but in use while the proper taxiway was out of service. Otherwise, this is how it is supposed to work.

My point is that the margin of error has been reduced. That is a major contributing factor.

You mentioned aircraft getting larger. The manufacturers are beginning to study the benefits of longer, slimmer wings. Supposedly big efficiency gains are possible.
The new 777 variant has folding wing tips to keep the longer wings compliant with existing airports.
But, if it's suddenly realized that all new aircraft can benefit from longer, slimmer wings, the industry is going to need to consider airport clearances because I don't think every new airplane model will adopt the complication of folding wing tips

 

[CamoDeafie]

If everyone just paid attention to the pavement markings, there wouldn't be so many accidents

So very very true for ground vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists

 

[Provincial]

If everyone just paid attention to the pavement markings, there wouldn't be so many accidents

Pilots pretty much slavishly follow the pavement markings of taxiways. Most of these collisions happen when the nosewheels of the moving airplane are on the centerline.

 

[made in china]

Pilots pretty much slavishly follow the pavement markings of taxiways. Most of these collisions happen when the nosewheels of the moving airplane are on the centerline.

I agree about the pilots. Question is, did the ground crew properly position the parked aircraft?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I agree about the pilots. Question is, did the ground crew properly position the parked aircraft?

I only watched the video one time but my $ is on the airbus not being far enough forward. I remember the angle seems odd.

 

[lucusloc]

I only watched the video one time but my $ is on the airbus not being far enough forward. I remember the angle seems odd.

I saw this one hit the news, but have not followed anything about it. The article said a bunch of pilots were suspended but was unclear on which side the suspensions were on. If it really was the Airbus that was out of place that means the Boeing pilots are in the clear right? My understanding is that pilots of the big planes rely on the taxyway markings to avoid collisions, so if their gear was in the right spot they would hold very little culpability in the accident?

 

[WAW44]

I saw this one hit the news, but have not followed anything about it. The article said a bunch of pilots were suspended but was unclear on which side the suspensions were on. If it really was the Airbus that was out of place that means the Boeing pilots are in the clear right? My understanding is that pilots of the big planes rely on the taxyway markings to avoid collisions, so if their gear was in the right spot they would hold very little culpability in the accident?

both crews were suspended pending investigation.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Good info on the 787. To sum up, Two whistleblowers said defective parts were taken from quarantine and installed to speed up production. FAA found 53 parts missing.

Second they said metal shavings went into the electrical wiring area.

One whistleblower said fitting of fuselage were not up to spec and may create problems down the road.

FAA required inspections after reports of water leaking from bathrooms onto electrical bays.

This was first crash of a 787. 1200 in service over a long time.

How safe is the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, really?

Long before the Air India tragedy, the cause of which is still to be determined, people who had worked on the 787 had raised concerns about the production standards

www.bbc.com