America without police?

[L84Cabo]

I don't think it's possible to do away with the police. Nor do I think that having them respond like firemen (only when they're called) will work...at all. Police being in and around the community is most certainly a deterrent. Keep the police back at the ranch until they're called and watch things like bank robbery soar...and speeding...and a whole host of other crimes.

One thing that could be tried, however, if you wanted to get away from police generating city revenue through tickets is that instead of, say, fining someone $150 for speeding, they would now have to serve 16 hours of community service. Or something like that. The punishment still has to be "painful" enough to serve as a deterrent.

 

[Camelfilter]

I don't think it's possible to do away with the police. Nor do I think that having them respond like firemen (only when they're called) will work...at all. Police being in and around the community is most certainly a deterrent. Keep the police back at the ranch until they're called and watch things like bank robbery soar...and speeding...and a whole host of other crimes.

One thing that could be tried, however, if you wanted to get away from police generating city revenue through tickets is that instead of, say, fining someone $150 for speeding, they would now have to serve 16 hours of community service. Or something like that. The punishment still has to be "painful" enough to serve as a deterrent.

Now that idea is a great one! The umpteen millionaire could give a fart about a $150 ticket, but 16 hours of comm serv would perhaps give them pause to use some better judgment.

 

[Camelfilter]

...And for those claiming excessive force by the police, if you were not committing a crime to begin with, you would not be having interaction with them. In most cases.

I agree with you there for the most part, plus if a police officer gives you a command, follow it.

Disagree with the command? Fine, but there's a time and place for disagreeing about the command. Feel its an unlawful order? Fine, but I wouldn't argue about it with officers in the heat of the moment, especially if they seem to feel I were armed or a threat.

Anyways, this topic is more along the lines of how to reduce/eliminate/improve policing.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

New Orleans during Katrina.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Witches float so I don't really see a problem. lol

Unless crime is a duck banging coconuts together. Then we're in trouble.

 

[Camelfilter]

New Orleans during Katrina.

Yup.

But, how would you suggest making the system work better, or different during "normal times". Not a natural disaster.

That idea of moving away from city town based systems, and upwards to a County system seems to me to be better. Add in civilian "help" if/as needed in the form of a militia (as suggested) or "posse". Would seem best use of resources to me anyways, by folks vested in the community.

 

[Brutus57]

I am pro police but I am also pro throw the book at them if they stomp on a citizen's Constitutional rights or shoot them dead in broad daylight for no good reason. There's a number of less than lethal options that just aren't in use much anymore. They have no more or less right to go home safely at night than a citizen. Every one used to be accountable for how they performed their job and these days they seem to never get fired.

America without police....Take a look at Syria, Sudan or Somalia.....there's the best vision of that shyte show.

Brutus Out

 

[Member 5605]

Problem is the Blue Union is too powerful. That's where a lot of this problem comes from. The accountability is gone, that's lead to a lot of public distrust.

 

[JRuby]

That county system sounds like something I could totally see working!

Not sure on Militias though - not familiar at all, other than historically speaking during our first revolution. Would the Militia be deputized arms of counties, or the state. Would they initiate arrests on there own, or as called upon by the county / state.

Sounds like vigilantes justice I do not support that.

 

[The B]

Didn't read the whole thread..

But to answer the op directly...

Firstly, I disagree that were at a tipping point.

Kinda feels like it, watching the news or logging onto Facebook... But no. We're pretty comfortable. we just give too much voice to loud angry minorities (the in-general kind, not racial). News media pays them too much attention, social media lets them stir up hornets nests of other angry minorities. Take either of those away, and would the world still seem to volatile? Nope.... Cause the other 95% of us with jobs and real lives are pretty comfortable. Minor political grievances we settle every two years or so at the ballot booth.

as to police and what life would look like without them: impossible. You could have no police, because even if you defunded all LE and teleported every sworn officer with a gun off the planet, people would just start their own civil defense force that would be less organized, less regulated, and more susceptible to corruption. For as long as people have 'money' and enough of it to afford to pay someone else to do their dirty work, they will.

 

[etrain16]

New Orleans during Katrina.

Except there were police, and national guard, and they were confiscating/stealing guns from law-abiding folks. They were definitely part of the problem right there - and none of them stood up to defend or protect the rights of law-abiding citizens. Total B.S.

 

[etrain16]

Witches float so I don't really see a problem. lol

That's good to know because I had one turn me into a newt once...but I got better.

 

[Camelfilter]

Didn't read the whole thread..

But to answer the op directly...

Firstly, I disagree that were at a tipping point.

Kinda feels like it, watching the news or logging onto Facebook... But no. We're pretty comfortable. we just give too much voice to loud angry minorities (the in-general kind, not racial). News media pays them too much attention, social media lets them stir up hornets nests of other angry minorities. Take either of those away, and would the world still seem to volatile? Nope.... Cause the other 95% of us with jobs and real lives are pretty comfortable. Minor political grievances we settle every two years or so at the ballot booth.

as to police and what life would look like without them: impossible. You could have no police, because even if you defunded all LE and teleported every sworn officer with a gun off the planet, people would just start their own civil defense force that would be less organized, less regulated, and more susceptible to corruption. For as long as people have 'money' and enough of it to afford to pay someone else to do their dirty work, they will.

I don't know, it just seems to me that we're getting close. It would depend upon how this election cycle goes - my opinion though.

I do agree that a law enforcement free society wouldn't work - as Brutus points out a look at Syria, Somalia & Sudan...I'd wager that your rite Ben Beckerich, that even in those lawless countries gangs & tribes likely have "enforcement folks", backwards however it is.

Interesting topic though, and I'll have a few more retorts the next time an acquitance mentions getting rid of all the police.

Thanks all!

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Yeah, it could work out.

After an enormous bloodbath! Who will win? Criminals/anarchists or just folks?

 

[etrain16]

So one question that burns in my mind - if we had no police, and it was up to citizens to 'enforce the law', does that mean we get to be free from prosecution if we catch someone in the act of say a violent act and have to use force, up to and including deadly force, to stop them? If we have to be the protectors of ourselves and our neighbors, then does that expand our use of firearms to protect more than just ourselves? At what point do citizen protectors become vigilantes? Who keeps taps on them? Who reigns them in if they get out of control? More citizens?

I just fail to see how that could work considering how society itself works today. It may have worked many moons ago when this country was little more than a collection of little farming hamlets without the means to hire their own police. But I don't think that's possible, or practical, today.

 

[Joe13]

Howdy,

With all of the recent police shootings & shootings by police, I just wanted to post this out on here.

I've noticed a bunch of folks pro-police & a bunch of folks anti-police, and a bunch of folks in the middle ie it would depend on the situation if they were pro-police, or found them unnecessary.

Me I'm pro - police. What I mean by that is I feel that they deserve my respect, are under funded & understaffed. Further more my bias leads me to "side" with police in any officer involved shooting or altercation, until & unless it is proven unjust. That's where I'm coming from, and I figured I'd post my "bias" rite in the beginning.

So my question is, how would our society function without police?

My opinion is that we're at a tipping point as it is. Removing or further limiting police "powers" would make most of our perceived safety even less so.

I honestly don't want an argument, I would like to hear folks opinions on how an America without police might look/work. Or alternatively if police "powers" were limited or reduced.

I mean would it be a "free for all" with anyone doing whatever they fealt was reasonable. From simple things like not obeying traffic safety laws etc. I've been in countries where traffic laws were more of a "suggestion", than law. It's pretty danged eye opening seeing a donkey cart tooling down the high speed lane. The wrong way..

...or a semi passing a semi on the right dirt shoulder, because another semi was passing the slow one on the left into the oncoming lane. On a 2 lane road WITH ONCOMING TRAFFIC.

So yeah, how would an America without police look to you? How would it look to you if they had limited powers?

Thanks!

It would be like most 3rd world countries. Your safety is your responsibility...

The anti-gun people wouldn't last long.

 

[Craig O]

Howdy,

With all of the recent police shootings & shootings by police, I just wanted to post this out on here.

I've noticed a bunch of folks pro-police & a bunch of folks anti-police, and a bunch of folks in the middle ie it would depend on the situation if they were pro-police, or found them unnecessary.

Me I'm pro - police. What I mean by that is I feel that they deserve my respect, are under funded & understaffed. Further more my bias leads me to "side" with police in any officer involved shooting or altercation, until & unless it is proven unjust. That's where I'm coming from, and I figured I'd post my "bias" rite in the beginning.

So my question is, how would our society function without police?

My opinion is that we're at a tipping point as it is. Removing or further limiting police "powers" would make most of our perceived safety even less so.

I honestly don't want an argument, I would like to hear folks opinions on how an America without police might look/work. Or alternatively if police "powers" were limited or reduced.

I mean would it be a "free for all" with anyone doing whatever they fealt was reasonable. From simple things like not obeying traffic safety laws etc. I've been in countries where traffic laws were more of a "suggestion", than law. It's pretty danged eye opening seeing a donkey cart tooling down the high speed lane. The wrong way..

...or a semi passing a semi on the right dirt shoulder, because another semi was passing the slow one on the left into the oncoming lane. On a 2 lane road WITH ONCOMING TRAFFIC.

So yeah, how would an America without police look to you? How would it look to you if they had limited powers?

Thanks!

It wouldn't function long !

 

[WasrNwarpaint]

It would be nice if we could retrain the police dept to go back to "SERVE & PROTECT" instead of what they have morphed into which has become "Law Enforcement and "Highway Men tax collectors"

 

[Camelfilter]

It would be nice if we could retrain the police dept to go back to "SERVE & PROTECT" instead of what they have morphed into which has become "Law Enforcement and "Highway Men tax collectors"

Careful what you wish for, what with all the automated systems & such!

I speed, and I know it. If I get pulled over, I know I was wrong. BUT I only speed "reasonably" i.e. Flow of traffic, good sight lines, not over-driving my lights etc etc.

Better system would be human traffic enforcement (police), but as mentioned previously, non-monetary punishment to fit the infraction (that's a super idea!). Or monetary increase in insurance (only), not a check to the town/city/state & insurance.

Police catch a bunch of wanted folks in just routine traffic stops. So good for us, more of them off the streets...if the judicial system would do its job. But that's an entirely different convo to have.

 

[Camelfilter]

Looks similar to Detroit...