America without police?

[Camelfilter]

Howdy,

With all of the recent police shootings & shootings by police, I just wanted to post this out on here.

I've noticed a bunch of folks pro-police & a bunch of folks anti-police, and a bunch of folks in the middle ie it would depend on the situation if they were pro-police, or found them unnecessary.

Me I'm pro - police. What I mean by that is I feel that they deserve my respect, are under funded & understaffed. Further more my bias leads me to "side" with police in any officer involved shooting or altercation, until & unless it is proven unjust. That's where I'm coming from, and I figured I'd post my "bias" rite in the beginning.

So my question is, how would our society function without police?

My opinion is that we're at a tipping point as it is. Removing or further limiting police "powers" would make most of our perceived safety even less so.

I honestly don't want an argument, I would like to hear folks opinions on how an America without police might look/work. Or alternatively if police "powers" were limited or reduced.

I mean would it be a "free for all" with anyone doing whatever they fealt was reasonable. From simple things like not obeying traffic safety laws etc. I've been in countries where traffic laws were more of a "suggestion", than law. It's pretty danged eye opening seeing a donkey cart tooling down the high speed lane. The wrong way..

...or a semi passing a semi on the right dirt shoulder, because another semi was passing the slow one on the left into the oncoming lane. On a 2 lane road WITH ONCOMING TRAFFIC.

So yeah, how would an America without police look to you? How would it look to you if they had limited powers?

Thanks!

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[edslhead]

You mean the gangs , bikers and junkies wouldn't keep the peace for us?

 

[slimmer13]

BLM would need to find something else to riot about lest they have to get jobs.

 

[WasrNwarpaint]

So my question is, how would our society function without police?

it wouldn't ....
the police is the thin line between civility and anarchy....that civility can be stripped away within hours and descend into anarchy....many could say we are slipping to that point now.

 

[Camelfilter]

You mean the gangs , bikers and junkies wouldn't keep the peace for us?

I don't think they would actually, that's a major crux of my question I'd like to understand others viewpoints on.

The minor traffic examples I gave were just a start on a thought process.

 

[Camelfilter]

it wouldn't ....
the police is the thin line between civility and anarchy....that civility can be stripped away within hours and descend into anarchy....many could say we are slipping to that point now.

I agree with your first point, but still feel we're on the uphill slope and haven't tipped to unrecoverable yet.

 

[edslhead]

I don't think they would actually, that's a major crux of my question I'd like to understand others viewpoints on.

The minor traffic examples I gave were just a start on a thought process.

I was kiddin. Remember when the Stones hired the Hells Angles to patrol one a their concerts
It didn't go well.

 

[Skymag]

http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/

I think this is how police should work. The idea that governments and society fund themselves by ticketing and arresting citizens is backwards. Money paid out to victims of police violence should come from the union itself, AG should be separate from police departments. Fewer Police, higher qualifications, higher pay and no more military equipment. Stop the Drug War, establish and confirm unconscious bias and work to stop it. Episode 548 of This American Life should be mandatory listening.

 

[Camelfilter]

BLM would need to find something else to riot about lest they have to get jobs.

Yeah, sad. Wouldn't it be nice if "those folks" were as tired from a long days work, then chores, as the rest of us are? Sure-absolutely protest civilly, that's equally important - perhaps more so than 2a.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Witches float so I don't really see a problem. lol

 

[Ura-Ki]

I think what we need to see happen is a quantum shift away from community law enforcement back to county enforcement, I.E. get rid of city, town Law enforcement! I am sick and tired of "Policing for profit" that is so common in all locations that have them! Expand the size of the Sheriff's dept's and restrict the State Police to State matters, subservient to the county Sheriff's office! Better, more organised and more publicly transparent Militia!

 

[Camelfilter]

Arrests plummet 66% with NYPD in virtual work stoppage | New York Post (http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/)

I think this is how police should work. The idea that governments and society fund themselves by ticketing and arresting citizens is backwards. Money paid out to victims of police violence should come from the union itself, AG should be separate from police departments. Fewer Police, higher qualifications, higher pay and no more military equipment. Stop the Drug War, establish and confirm unconscious bias and work to stop it. Episode 548 of This American Life should be mandatory listening.

Read that article just now. Thanks!

Great point on the ticketing and arresting as self funding too. Without tickets, why would folks drive safely and responsibly? Would a non-money ticket still affect insurance rates maybe? Too many tickets and the privelage to drive is revoked?

Edit, adding in just now: about the cities & towns with traffic camera systems. The traffic camera violations could similarly be no charge, but affect your insurance rate.

 

[Camelfilter]

I think what we need to see happen is a quantum shift away from community law enforcement back to county enforcement, I.E. get rid of city, town Law enforcement! I am sick and tired of "Policing for profit" that is so common in all locations that have them! Expand the size of the Sheriff's dept's and restrict the State Police to State matters, subservient to the county Sheriff's office! Better, more organised and more publicly transparent Militia!

That county system sounds like something I could totally see working!

Not sure on Militias though - not familiar at all, other than historically speaking during our first revolution. Would the Militia be deputized arms of counties, or the state. Would they initiate arrests on there own, or as called upon by the county / state.

 

[Skymag]

Read that article just now. Thanks!

Great point on the ticketing and arresting as self funding too. Without tickets, why would folks drive safely and responsibly? Would a non-money ticket still affect insurance rates maybe? Too many tickets and the privelage to drive is revoked?

I just think our ability to self police family friends and ourselves is vastly underrated by society and ourselves to some degree. Revoking licenses after so many infractions would be great, how it works with insurance would take some work and ultimately people who want to drive/park like idiots are going to do it regardless of laws or financial repercussions. That is essentially the backbone of all pro-gun arguments, "criminals gonna criminal" I dunno man, its a weird time.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Read between the lines, Policing for profit is causing a fortune in lost revenues for the cities affected! But the real threat is the Draconian move to have multiple res-ponders to any call out thus insuring full and complete compliance by overwhelming force! I bet we start seeing more executions as a result!

 

[Camelfilter]

Witches float so I don't really see a problem. lol

Not following you there, but I'd welcome your thoughts on the questions I posted. Yes they are purely for discussion.

Have some ideas on less than lethal force? Let's hear it.

Have some ideas on body cams for all? Let's hear it.

Have ideas on reducing city / town profit generators, but still being able to maintain civil society overall? Just a moment ago...

 

[Ura-Ki]

That county system sounds like something I could totally see working!

Not sure on Militias though - not familiar at all, other than historically speaking during our first revolution. Would the Militia be deputized arms of counties, or the state. Would they initiate arrests on there own, or as called upon by the county / state.

I think it would work having a call up/call out of militia to assist Sheriff's with enforcement of large scale issues, Like protests and other gatherings where there could be trouble! Having that ( as it was designed) would enable a more transparent system of redress and also would unite communities far more, having a personal investment in that community!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Not following you there, but I'd welcome your thoughts on the questions I posted. Yes they are purely for discussion.

Have some ideas on less than lethal force? Let's hear it.

Have some ideas on body cams for all? Let's hear it.

Have ideas on reducing city / town profit generators, but still being able to maintain civil society overall? Just a moment ago...

re·duc·ti·o ad ab·sur·dum
[rəˌdəktēō ad abˈsɜrdəm]
NOUN

1. philosophy
   a method of proving the falsity of a premise by showing that its logical consequence is absurd or contradictory.

Yes, in other words we need laws and enforcement of those laws.. I thought my posit a good example of ridiculous.

 

[Camelfilter]

I think it would work having a call up/call out of militia to assist Sheriff's with enforcement of large scale issues, Like protests and other gatherings where there could be trouble! Having that ( as it was designed) would enable a more transparent system of redress and also would unite communities far more, having a personal investment in that community!

That makes sense. Thanks.

Would be tricky getting everyone on the same page as far as rules of engagement, etc, but could be doable with good leadership.

I'm thinking on what Police currently put up with at any large protest (not just BLM). I would find it challenging to just stand there and take it, I'd hope I could do so with the proper training.

 

[Camelfilter]

re·duc·ti·o ad ab·sur·dum
[rəˌdəktēō ad abˈsɜrdəm]
NOUN

1. philosophy
   a method of proving the falsity of a premise by showing that its logical consequence is absurd or contradictory.

Yes, in other words we need laws and enforcement of those laws.. I thought my posit a good example of ridiculous.

Ok, got you. Thanks for the explanation.

A lot of folks have concerns about current laws and enforcement of such. My absurd thought about life without police is at the extreme far end of the spectrum, current laws and enforcement seem to be trending towards the other extreme, still a far way to go before a "police state" - IMO.