Accurately Measuring Powder for BP Guns

[etrain16]

Okay, I've been trying to find an answer to this question, and I seem to have a hard time finding a consistent answer. So, I'll reach out to some of you fine NWFA folks that have experience in these things to see if I can get properly educated on this.

So my question is this - is it safe to assume volume measurements of various black powders are close enough for consistency and safety?

The reason I ask is that I know various black powders, like smokeless powders, have differing grain sizes and shapes which can lead to differing compaction in the measure. So is 60 grains of one powder, measured by volume, going to be close enough to 60 grains of another powder? Is 60 grains of Pyrodex roughly equivalent to 60 grains of 2F?

I'm just curious now that I've got everything I need to finally get my Hawken to the range. I just don't want to mess anything up along the way. I've checked out YT videos, read posts here on NWFA and had the benefit of info provided directly to me by folks like @AndyinEverson

Anyway, I thought I'd do a thread on this in case any other newbie BP shooters could benefit from this discussion topic.

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[Alexx1401]

Okay, I've been trying to find an answer to this question, and I seem to have a hard time finding a consistent answer. So, I'll reach out to some of you fine NWFA folks that have experience in these things to see if I can get properly educated on this.

So my question is this - is it safe to assume volume measurements of various black powders are close enough for consistency and safety?

The reason I ask is that I know various black powders, like smokeless powders, have differing grain sizes and shapes which can lead to differing compaction in the measure. So is 60 grains of one powder, measured by volume, going to be close enough to 60 grains of another powder? Is 60 grains of Pyrodex roughly equivalent to 60 grains of 2F?

I'm just curious now that I've got everything I need to finally get my Hawken to the range. I just don't want to mess anything up along the way. I've checked out YT videos, read posts here on NWFA and had the benefit of info provided directly to me by folks like @AndyinEverson

Anyway, I thought I'd do a thread on this in case any other newbie BP shooters could benefit from this discussion topic.

This is more in Andy's wheelhouse but I did shoot these a lot for a time. When I was doing it there was BP and Pyrodex. BP if you used 3f in a rifle gave slightly more juice but we were never anywhere near max, We were shooting 60-80 gr loads in rifles that would take twice that if we wanted so we never cared. At that time we were told Pyrodex measured the same way, just used the same measuring. Unless you are planning on trying to load anywhere near max I don't think it could really matter.

 

[etrain16]

This is more in Andy's wheelhouse but I did shoot these a lot for a time. When I was doing it there was BP and Pyrodex. BP if you used 3f in a rifle gave slightly more juice but we were never anywhere near max, We were shooting 60-80 gr loads in rifles that would take twice that if we wanted so we never cared. At that time we were told Pyrodex measured the same way, just used the same measuring. Unless you are planning on trying to load anywhere near max I don't think it could really matter.

I'm not hunting, so I won't be going near a max load. My plan was to aim for 60-80 grains of Pyrodex (I have that on hand right now) with a .490 ball and lubed patch. I just want to get a feel for how it shoots and get used to the practice of loading. Once I have that down, I also have a BP revolver to play around with - that one will, as I recall be more like 25-30 grains, but I'll have to look that one up again. I'd like to get some 2F powder, just haven't done it yet.

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm not hunting, so I won't be going near a max load. My plan was to aim for 60-80 grains of Pyrodex (I have that on hand right now) with a .490 ball and lubed patch. I just want to get a feel for how it shoots and get used to the practice of loading. Once I have that down, I also have a BP revolver to play around with - that one will, as I recall be more like 25-30 grains, but I'll have to look that one up again. I'd like to get some 2F powder, just haven't done it yet.

In the wheel guns, which is what I was fond of, you can't overload them as long as it's not the brass frame ones. They work with as much powder as will still allow the slug to seat. Slightly lighter loads did seem to give slightly better accuracy when I was playing with them. After I had been doing it for a while I ended up with 2 of the old Rugers they used to make. Damn they were nice. I even bought a mold to cast conicals for it. It was a hell of a lot of fun when I had a close place to shoot. Got tired of the mess and sold them. Now and then I wish I had kept one for an occasional outing with them. Miss that smell of the real BP.

 

[Dungannon]

Don't reload or shoot black powder but a former neighbor did. Only distinctive thing I remember about his setup was a long drop tube. He had to stand up to meter the powder into the long copper drop tube, and said it gave more consistency to his loads. [He was loading brass with black powder for a Sharps reproduction rifle.]

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Late to the party .. but just got back from rendezvous....
A good general rule of thumb is whatever caliber a rifle is then that is the charge to use.
50 caliber .... 50 grains
45 caliber ... 45 grains.
I use 2F for all my shooting , pistols , rifles , shotguns , priming.
A rifle may like a bit more or a bit less than the I "rule" I just posted.
My .54 Hawken really likes a 80 grain charge.
I have a .45 caliber long rifle that likes a 65 grain charge.
My Southgate .38 caliber rifle likes a 40 grain charge.
Andy

 

[etrain16]

Late to the party .. but just got back from rendezvous....
A good general rule of thumb is whatever caliber a rifle is then that is the charge to use.
50 caliber .... 50 grains
45 caliber ... 45 grains.
I use 2F for all my shooting , pistols , rifles , shotguns , priming.
A rifle may like a bit more or a bit less than the I "rule" I just posted.
My .54 Hawken really likes a 80 grain charge.
I have a .45 caliber long rifle that likes a 65 grain charge.
My Southgate .38 caliber rifle likes a 40 grain charge.
Andy

Great rule of thumb, marking that down!

To the question in my OP though - should I expect different powders to measure the same at a given volume? Apparently this isn't exactly the case as can be evidenced by weighing charges too - due to variances in grain size, structure, etc.? In other words, should I trust 50 grains of 2F is about the same load as 50 grains of Pyrodex?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

50 grains of 2f is going "weigh" different that 50 of 3F... 3F being finer and smaller it take more to weigh 50 grains
Another good rule of thumb:
If you change from 2F to 3F ... drop the load down by 10.
So if your rifle likes 50 grains of 2F ... use 40 of 3F

Pyrodex comes in "F" equivalents ... but at the moment I'll be darned if I remember the super silly code.
I think it may be on the label of Pyrodex bottles/cans....
Andy

 

[etrain16]

50 grains of 2f is going "weigh" different that 50 of 3F... 3F being finer and smaller it take more to weigh 50 grains
Another good rule of thumb:
If you change from 2F to 3F ... drop the load down by 10.
So if your rifle likes 50 grains of 2F ... use 40 of 3F

Pyrodex comes in "F" equivalents ... but at the moment I'll be darned if I remember the super silly code.
I think it may be on the label of Pyrodex bottles/cans....
Andy

That helps, thanks!

 

[Alexx1401]

when I was doing it the stuff was measured the same when using a measure. It of course did not weight out the same but all of us were using volume type measures. It was at least then sold as being the same.

 

[etrain16]

when I was doing it the stuff was measured the same when using a measure. It of course did not weight out the same but all of us were using volume type measures. It was at least then sold as being the same.

That's what I had originally understood. But then I started reading stuff, on the internet, and suddenly I was questioning what I thought I knew. And when I started searching around that question, the answers became even less clear....leave it to the internet.