9mm OAL with RMR Bullets

[Wayne]

The Lee FCD for rifle is different from pistol. The rifle does not have the sizing ring that the pistol has. The rifle die does not have the problems that the pistol does.

Rifle LFCD:
These dies work on a collet principal. As the die hits the shell holder, an internal collet closes in horizontally on the junction of the bullet and case, squeezing the case into the bullet. The LFCD can be setup (wrong) to crush the bullet in this process so you must follow the direction packaged with the LFCD to assure the correct crimp is made. It pushes in four spots around the case and needs no crimp grove in the bullet for successful crimping. It is relatively case length independent (but trim length of the cases after sizing MUST match the specs in the manuals or excessive pressures MAY be generated in the firing of the gun). Heavy crimps can not bulge the cases in the crimp area as happens with standard crimping using the standard seating dies for crimping because the crimping force is horizontal, not vertical.

Early examples of the LFCD would gall the collet after extended usage but later versions I used have not shown this failure (maybe Lee finally used the correct materials in the LFCD ???).



Pistol LFCD:
These dies have a thin shell that slides internally inside the die. That shell gets behind the case and pushes it horizontally into the bullet all the way around the case, making a continuous deep crimp. The bullets do not have to have a crimp groove but with a heavy adjustment will deform the bullets enough to generate one in the bullet.

The dies include a carbide ring in the bottom that size the loaded ammo before and after the crimp is made, assuring the finished cartridges are to spec for easy loading into the gun's chamber.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The Lee FCD for rifle is different from pistol. The rifle does not have the sizing ring that the pistol has. The rifle die does not have the problems that the pistol does.

Rifle LFCD:
These dies work on a collet principal. As the die hits the shell holder, an internal collet closes in horizontally on the junction of the bullet and case, squeezing the case into the bullet. The LFCD can be setup (wrong) to crush the bullet in this process so you must follow the direction packaged with the LFCD to assure the correct crimp is made. It pushes in four spots around the case and needs no crimp grove in the bullet for successful crimping. It is relatively case length independent (but trim length of the cases after sizing MUST match the specs in the manuals or excessive pressures MAY be generated in the firing of the gun). Heavy crimps can not bulge the cases in the crimp area as happens with standard crimping using the standard seating dies for crimping because the crimping force is horizontal, not vertical.

Early examples of the LFCD would gall the collet after extended usage but later versions I used have not shown this failure (maybe Lee finally used the correct materials in the LFCD ???).



Pistol LFCD:
These dies have a thin shell that slides internally inside the die. That shell gets behind the case and pushes it horizontally into the bullet all the way around the case, making a continuous deep crimp. The bullets do not have to have a crimp groove but with a heavy adjustment will deform the bullets enough to generate one in the bullet.

The dies include a carbide ring in the bottom that size the loaded ammo before and after the crimp is made, assuring the finished cartridges are to spec for easy loading into the gun's chamber.

Talkin 9x19 here

 

[Wayne]

I was replying to the post before mine that now appears to have been deleted, he was asking if the pistol was the same as the rifle.

 

[gmerkt]

Most people think the Lee FCD reduces neck tension due to disparate spring back of the case and bullet.

And here I assume you are referring to only the Lee FCD for pistol cartridges, as the FCD for rifle works differently.

Okay, you're saying when you swage down a complete round with the FCD pistol die, the bullet material swages down more than the brass case material post spring-back. Which makes sense and I hadn't thought of this issue. Which might result in causing the bullet to undersize a bit and actually reduce tension.

The Lee FCD die for pistol, probably very nice for eliminating flare and even giving a gentle crimp. But I don't like the idea of swaging down cartridges to force a fit to correct an improper technique or material.

My opinion on FCD dies in general is that they are kind of bandaids for problems that might otherwise be solved by more appropriate methods. With pistol cartridges, the unsightly bulge is okay so long as it's functional. And if it isn't functional, the compatibility of materials should be looked into.

I think a big issue with Lee FCD dies is the degree to which they are used. Meaning, gently or heavily applied.

I do not accept all the points Lee makes for their rifle FCD dies; a couple are valid and another I have no science to dispute their point. BUT! I do have a few of the rifle FCD dies. They are used very rarely and only in problematic situations. I have one pistol FCD die that came with my Dillon 550, and I've actually used it. I left it in the tool head that came with the machine. But it wasn't necessary for swaging ammo, my components were all naturally compatible. It was only used for gentle taper crimp.

 

[gmerkt]

With pistol cartridges, the unsightly bulge is okay so long as it's functional. And if it isn't functional, the compatibility of materials should be looked into.

Quoting myself. In thinking about my previous post, I should add this. Because there is a wide range of experience among reloaders, the following is not for those who already know everything but for those maybe still learning. The latter one of which I consider myself to be. Concerning the Lee pistol FCD die, the need for it may be pretty much eliminated if the proper components are purchased in advance. The need for the pistol FCD is because the finished cartridge is essentially too fat. It won't chamber or at any rate do so reliably so the FCD is used to swage it down to the proper size.

My feeling is this is largely related to using bullets over .355 diameter. Which often are cast, these days coated, or possibly some plated bullet products. So this issue coupled with case wall thickness might result in finished rounds that are too fat. Therefore it is advised to experiment a bit with your components before loading up 1,000 rounds. Make a few test dummies without powder and primer to see how they "run." Many of the companies that sell coated bullets will sell smaller quantity sample packs.

I just miked some coated bullets I have downstairs. They came from Bayou bullets, they are 130 gr. for .38 Super but I've used them in 9mm also. They are supposed to be sized .356, actually measure .357. I've never had any problems with these but with thick brass, they might result in "fat" cartridges. I also miked some plated bullets from Rainier, supposed to be .356, really were .356. These are just examples. In my experience most jacketed bullets expressly for 9x19 will mike out at .355.

If you're using mixed brass, you don't really know what you're gonna wind up with until you load it. I reuse lots of fired 9mm brass but I do go through the bother of sorting it for reasons such as discussed above. With batched brass you can pin-point or rule out at least case brand as a source of trouble if it should arise.

For cast bullets in 9x19, I prefer Remington brand, they are relatively thin.