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po18guy

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Honestly, since almost no ammo of any caliber is on the shelf, I think these "moribund" cartridges might just live on. Thing is, one can look at cartridge sales and make predictions, but they are nothing more than opinions. The weapons that shoot them are still in safes, on walls, over fireplaces, in gun racks and closets all over the US and Canada.

If you think of ammo as software and the guns as hardware, there will always be a demand for it. What good is a computer if there is no software? Also, brass and bullets! How many billion rounds of brass and bullets are lying in wait?

In like manner, the demise of fossil fuel was predicted decades ago - the prophets of doom were in high dudgeon over the gas crisis. Yet >> 50 years and here we are. No more Pintos, Vegas or Beetles. We're motorin' in Rams, Sierras and F-250s like never before.
 
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.280 remington should be #1 on that list.
Yeah
They've all been punched out to 280AI
81248-DEFAULT-l.jpg
Smoke 'em if you got 'em
 
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I read both of the "dying cartridges" articles from Field and Stream on my phone.

If it was in print, I'd use it for starting a fire cuz the slick paper won't work like Charmin.

Richard Mann isn't the best gunwriter I've ever read, but I expected a bit more from Field and Stream. Or not. I dropped my subscription a couple of years ago.
They should have Ron Spomer write for them.
 
Been a .375 shooter for 35 years now, never regretted going with that one, talk about versatile! It's perfect for Elk, Moose, Caribou, Reindeer, Big coastal Brown Bear and Grizzley! It's also quite good at smaller game, can be loaded down pretty light, and still do the job better then some! As far as ballistics go, I find it actually matches the .270 closer then the .30/06, and that makes for a 2 gun battery that would be capable of everything in North America and most things world wide!
When I had a 375 Ruger I noticed that the 375 with a 270gr matched the trajectory of the 06 with a 180gr.
Correct! I actually had mine Reamed to .375 Weatherby mag, makes for an even more versatile chambering. Basically takes the case taper out, and blows the shoulder into the Weatherby style, not a huge gain, but it really shows when pushing heavy bullets hard, or for bucking wind with the lighter and more aerodynamic bullets!
Nice thing about it is I can still use standard Holland&Holland factory ammo and brass and fire form to the new chamber, all with out loosing any accuracy! It's truly amazing!
Probably the only way a standard cartridge works flawlessly in an improved chamber. My experience, matched by PO and by my gunsmith is shooting a "non improved" cartridge in an improved chamber is about 50-60% ignition on first strike of the primer. It's not quite what the gun writers have one to believe.
I'm not sure why the .264 Win Mag had a belt. The purpose of which is to provide a means of headspacing. Which might've been necessary on the early magnums, but the .264 has plenty of shoulder. Maybe it was put on because by that time, it was expected.
I'd say so. In the 50's and 60's (at least) a Magnum HAD to have a belt or it wasn't really a Magnum.
 
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Orygun, I wanted to quote your comment about firing a non-improved cartridge in an improved chamber but couldn't figure it out.

I've never owned a rifle with an improved chamber, but have been very interested. Mainly my favorite cal 30-06, and I've long desired to have my next 22-250 re-chambered to an Ackley. I've long understood that firing standard cartridges in an improved chamber is a relatively simple proposition with no problems. I do not recall ever having seen reports of poor ignition.

Appreciate your knowledge and will keep it in mind.
 

Dinglenutz

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Been a .375 shooter for 35 years now, never regretted going with that one, talk about versatile! It's perfect for Elk, Moose, Caribou, Reindeer, Big coastal Brown Bear and Grizzley! It's also quite good at smaller game, can be loaded down pretty light, and still do the job better then some! As far as ballistics go, I find it actually matches the .270 closer then the .30/06, and that makes for a 2 gun battery that would be capable of everything in North America and most things world wide!
William Bell is said to have killed a lot of elephants with smaller. So there's that.
 
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We had quite a discussion here a couple of years ago about doing Ackley improved cartridges and if it was really worth it or not. I think several of us concluded that it was mostly hype and hassle, and little if any improvement( with exceptions) as I have seen a few that do actually improve, though like posted above about the gun writers, mostly hype!
My .375 went up in recoil I can tell you that, what was already sharp became almost unbearable! Accuracy stayed excellent, and depending on bullet actually did better in some areas and at some ranges! Seems to favor the 270 Oryx's, and the .300 A -Frames as well as the old 250 Cor-LoKed!
 

gmerkt

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We had quite a discussion here a couple of years ago about doing Ackley improved cartridges and if it was really worth it or not. I think several of us concluded that it was mostly hype and hassle, and little if any improvement( with exceptions) as I have seen a few that do actually improve, though like posted above about the gun writers, mostly hype!
My .375 went up in recoil I can tell you that, what was already sharp became almost unbearable! Accuracy stayed excellent, and depending on bullet actually did better in some areas and at some ranges!
Not to re-ignite that discussion all over again. But taking the .257 Roberts (improved cartridge that shows the most gain) and the .257 Ackley improved as examples, a 10% increase in powder charge gains a 5% increase in velocity. Thus:

Do you think the game know any difference in what killed them?
Plus, there is the expense and fussing around in conversion if the gun didn't come already so chambered. One writer said you can get the barrel re-throated, allowing the bullet to be seated farther out, hence increasing usable case volume (and will it still work in the magazine?) But that's another "mess around" that costs money and maneuver. Oh, I have no problem with people trying to wrest as much out of a design as possible; there are always gonna be people who aren't satisfied with the existing whatever. It's just that for the average guy, it often isn't necessary change.

Here's the thing with guns. Some guys buy one and it's just a tool, to be used as-is for a specific purpose. Other guys buy guns and for the sake of enjoyment like to make changes to them for various reasons. In this sense, guns are like cars.
 
Orygun, I wanted to quote your comment about firing a non-improved cartridge in an improved chamber but couldn't figure it out.

I've never owned a rifle with an improved chamber, but have been very interested. Mainly my favorite cal 30-06, and I've long desired to have my next 22-250 re-chambered to an Ackley. I've long understood that firing standard cartridges in an improved chamber is a relatively simple proposition with no problems. I do not recall ever having seen reports of poor ignition.

Appreciate your knowledge and will keep it in mind.
The Ackley chamber is shorter at the junction of the neck and shoulder. That's what is supposed to hold the cartridge in place for fireforming. It's a small area and the firing pin often shoves the case forward without igniting the primer. Some folks recommend a long seat on the fireform bullet, jamming it into the lands to keep the case from moving. Once it ignites, everything is good as far as fireforming goes. Still, it's frustrating enough at the range and definitely not something I'd want to try in a hunting situation. A case with a belt would not have that issue.

2900fps (with ZERO pressure signs) with a 180gr bullet out of a 22" barrel? I think that's a pretty good improvement. I think I could get very close to 3000fps if I wanted to push it. What kind of velocity do ya think a 300 Win Mag would do with a 22" barrel?
For a short time I had an 300 win Mag in an identical rifle as my 06AI. Longer (24" barrel), heavier and one less cartridge held in the mag. I only wish I'd have chronoed it, just to make a reasonable comparison.
Granted the 06AI didn't make as much as an improvement from the parent case as it would have with a .280, but the 280 is a longer (re- 30-03) case.
 

po18guy

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You can't expect to drop a glamour shot like that without some sort of explanation. More!
Very long, convoluted story that began with Ordnance Technology in Stetson, Maine in the 1980s. They created the SSP86, a single shot rotary cannon breech handgun. That design developed headspace problems, so it was re-designed into the SSP91, which was also sold by Magnum Research as the Lone Eagle. It had a fixed barrel, a cocking lever and manual ejection. One of those involved in the project redesigned it yet again, making it cock-on-opening, auto eject, with interchangeable barrels and a blade safety in the trigger (in addition to a manual safety on the bolt cap. He split off and formed a company to manufacture his design, having been the gun business for years sub-contracting parts for various New England gun makers.

His version was called the "Competitor" and was eventually available with barrels from 10"-20 something inches and in over 350 different chamberings. The most infamous was .458 Winchester Magnum, seen in a video here. Correct. Not being such a recoil junky, I went milder with .223, .25-06 and 444 Marlin barrels. I will admit that the .25-06 is much more comfortable to shoot than the 444, although both have muzzle brakes.
 
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LOVE the .264 Win Mag, sadly, there were never really any rifles other then Winchester offered in this potent caliber, and Winchester didn't market it correctly, plus, having to compete with the 7mm Rem. Mag hurt it even more! Still, it's one smokin hot 6.5 with lots of potential for those of us who still think the 6.5 is king!

The original .30 Rem. USED to be a semi auto rifle round for the then new Remington Model 8, and it died pretty quick, performance was Meh, and it never really caught on! This new .30 Rem might be something, but with the .300 B.O. I see no use for it!
The others, might have done better with better marketing and more rifles chambered in them, plus the ammo manufactures never really supported them, other then the .25/06!
100% on the .264 Win-Mag. The 140-gr. load is a monster, could drop a moose. I took my first buck with that cartridge in 1985, with my grandpa's Winchester Model 70. He was standing right behind me when I did it. My grandpa, not the deer...
 

Rem725

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I see fewer and fewer 300 Savage bolt guns. But I do have two 722 300S.
Obsolete or not I have these CF rifle calibres
222, 223, 243, 257R, 270, 280, 300S, 308, 3006, 300HH, 375HH
 
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For those who dont like to read...

The calibers in question are:

1. .264 Win Mag

2. .25-06

3. .284 Winchester

4. .307 WInchester

5. .30 Remington AR

6. .35 Whelen

I am reading some of the forum to my husband and I showed him this thread.

He said that he has never owned the rifle calibers shown above.

He has owned MANY firearm calibers in the past from a to z in handguns, rifles and shotguns too.

He got rid of a BUNCH of them that I may remember well and some that he has to remind me about again or tell me from the gitgo too!

He is not knocking people who choose to buy/own the above. To each their own.

People call him OLD FASHIONED sometimes because when he downsized and consolidated BIG TIME - he still KEPT one 45-70 Government, one 30-30 Winchester and one 30-06 rifles. They did not laugh at his one .223 bolt action rifle or the 22lr and 22wmr rifles.

I never owned the rifle calibers LISTED in the article.

Cate
 
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