6 Dying Rifle Cartridges that Deserve a Second Chance

[3MTA3]

My oldest brother bought a 264 Win Mag in the early 60's. A very sweet shooting and accurate rifle. He took deer and elk every year with it and it's now a treasured heirloom of his stepson. It was his only hunting rifle and never needed a second shot. IMO very underrated.

 

[3006shooter]

Fan of the 30-40 krag round myself. Mild recoil and suitable for most north America game. Pity more rifles were not chambered in it.

In the late 40's, my old buddy (RIP Jim) struck out for AK straight out of high school and brought a 30-40 Krag along. But then once there, he wanted to get in on the bounty AK was paying on bald eagles and after debating between an ought-six and 270, he bought a new Model 70 270 because he had read so much O'Connor. I once asked him how many eagles he had killed with his 270. He just said " a lot".

 

[The Heretic]

Its not so much a case of the belted magnum being an issue but that of bullet choices.

.30 caliber cartridges tend to be excellent candidates for downloading simply due to the vast amount of bullets available. Heck in .30 cal you can start at a low of 93 grains and go up from there. And depending on what you are doing a plated or poly coated lead bullet may work well.

That .30 cal belted whatever can be very effectively loaded down with 100 - 125 grain bullets with plenty of data available.

By "loaded down" do you mean Trail Boss type loads that are subsonic? Because that is what I meant.

 

[Koda]

FIFY

Meh, too much recoil to enjoy shooting but otherwise its a good hunting round.

 

[Koda]

And I hope you are around to say I told you so

I wont, but would love to shake an old man fist at the younguns and remind them they shoulda listened to us old timers...

 

[RVTECH]

By "loaded down" do you mean Trail Boss type loads that are subsonic? Because that is what I meant.

Well, you didn't mention 'subsonic' or Trailboss powder and all I read was your question ' how do you download a belted magnum?' so I was thinking in the general sense of a reduced load.

I suspect you could create a 'subsonic' load in a large, belted mag case but that might be stretching it. you would need to use a very small amount of a pistol powder. While this can be done with some cartridges it is typically done in medium to smaller sized cases.

While some powders are not particularly position sensitive I don't believe a small charge required for a subsonic load would work well in a larger, belted case. I have heard of 3.5 - 4 grains of Bullseye being used in smaller .30 caliber cases to create subsonic loads but in something like a large belted case it's hard to say.

I do see a lot of data for reduced loads in larger mag calibers using Unique but these are in the 1600 - 2000 FPS velocity range.

I have no experience with Trailboss but being it is a less dense, fluffy powder it may suffice for subsonic loads in larger, magnum calibers.

 

[oremike]

The best way to download a magnum caliber is to buy a lessor caliber

 

[Ura-Ki]

Yup, the awesome .270 never got as much lovin as the others! Sadly, it also never got a lot of really good factory ammo ether, but, for handloadeds, it's a dream come true, near 7mm mag performance with much less recoil, and dosnt run through as much powder on the bench ether! I should really use mine more, but find the 6.5X55 does the same job better!

Now there's a cartridge that's beat the odds! It was never popular here in the states, being metric was somehow a bad thing, and if not for a bunch of surplus and bring backs, it would have never taken off here at all. For those who discovered it, found it to be quite good once they started hand loading for it and the bullet selection is second to none!
It should have ether been much more popular, or it should have dried up on the vine, but it didn't do ether, so here we are! That old Swede sure pushed a lot of wildcats to try and do better with that awesome bore, some even did better, but at a cost in barrel life! Now days, that's not really an issue, but 30 years or so ago, I wouldn't have done it!

 

[RVTECH]

The best way to download a magnum caliber is to buy a lessor caliber

Ditto this! A 'lessor' caliber to start with gives you much more 'latitude' to create reduced loads.

 

[Knobgoblin]

The very last time I was in Walmart there were only 4 boxes of metalic ammunition.. 2 boxes of 30-06 and 2 of .270.

So , you bought these of course.

 

[03A3Sporter]

By "loaded down" do you mean Trail Boss type loads that are subsonic? Because that is what I meant.

I use 2400 and I have never had a problem .. Loading a 375 H&H with cast bullets yields a cartridge with 30-06 ballistics which uses less powder . Having said that the bullet costs me very little to nothing to cast and there is not much in the way of cost save the little bit of powder and a primer.


I don not do the same with a lot of high velocity rifle cartridges , most of my cast rifle is 30-06 and up . Casting for 06 in my world gives me something with 357 mag plus a little velocity wise as I do not push my cast pills much past 2000 and most are in the 17 to 1800 FPS range .

When you are shooting slow speeds increasing bullet diameter and weight is how you make up for the lost velocities.

 

[3006shooter]

What is the bronze tip anyway?

I have some Remington 7.62x54R with bronze colored points. They are really old.

 

[The Heretic]

Well, you didn't mention 'subsonic' or Trailboss powder and all I read was your question ' how do you download a belted magnum?' so I was thinking in the general sense of a reduced load.

I suspect you could create a 'subsonic' load in a large, belted mag case but that might be stretching it. you would need to use a very small amount of a pistol powder. While this can be done with some cartridges it is typically done in medium to smaller sized cases.

While some powders are not particularly position sensitive I don't believe a small charge required for a subsonic load would work well in a larger, belted case. I have heard of 3.5 - 4 grains of Bullseye being used in smaller .30 caliber cases to create subsonic loads but in something like a large belted case it's hard to say.

I do see a lot of data for reduced loads in larger mag calibers using Unique but these are in the 1600 - 2000 FPS velocity range.

I have no experience with Trailboss but being it is a less dense, fluffy powder it may suffice for subsonic loads in larger, magnum calibers.

I guess I should have looked closer because there is load data for TB for belted magnums:

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf

It doesn't have to be TB, I've used Bullseye in a .308 Win case with dacron on top of the powder to fill the case, and 110 gr hardcast gas check FN bullets - seemed to work well in the Ruger 77 I had at the time. I still have an emergency stash of about 10-20 cartridges in an ammo wallet for emergencies while hunting (I don't hunt anymore though).

Just the same, I don't really have a use for belted magnums - if I still hunted, it would not be anything that could not be taken with a .308 Win (except, I would like to take a bison someday, but I have a .45-70 for that purpose) and I am not a good enough shot to want to take a shot at something beyond the range of the .308 either.

I have thought about getting a .338 Lapua Mag, but I probably wouldn't shoot it, and certainly don't need it.

 

[The Heretic]

View attachment 902847

I think they were a precursor to the ballistic tip type of bullet. Kind of like the Winchester Silver Tip? To protect the tip?

 

[Certaindeaf]

I use 2400 and I have never had a problem .. Loading a 375 H&H with cast bullets yields a cartridge with 30-06 ballistics which uses less powder . Having said that the bullet costs me very little to nothing to cast and there is not much in the way of cost save the little bit of powder and a primer.


I don not do the same with a lot of high velocity rifle cartridges , most of my cast rifle is 30-06 and up . Casting for 06 in my world gives me something with 357 mag plus a little velocity wise as I do not push my cast pills much past 2000 and most are in the 17 to 1800 FPS range .

When you are shooting slow speeds increasing bullet diameter and weight is how you make up for the lost velocities.

Heh, I cast gas checked Lyman 190's and use Red Dot out of my 03-A3 sporter.

 

[The Heretic]

I use 2400 and I have never had a problem .. Loading a 375 H&H with cast bullets yields a cartridge with 30-06 ballistics which uses less powder . Having said that the bullet costs me very little to nothing to cast and there is not much in the way of cost save the little bit of powder and a primer.


I don not do the same with a lot of high velocity rifle cartridges , most of my cast rifle is 30-06 and up . Casting for 06 in my world gives me something with 357 mag plus a little velocity wise as I do not push my cast pills much past 2000 and most are in the 17 to 1800 FPS range .

When you are shooting slow speeds increasing bullet diameter and weight is how you make up for the lost velocities.

The 375 H&H is a very versatile cartridge. If I lived in Africa that is what I would have.

I don't need much to make up for the loss of velocity as the intention is to use the load for grouse or rabbits and such. Hit with any .30 caliber bullet at almost any speed that would make the bullet leave the barrel, would do the job. This outfit sells 38 gr .30 cal cast AL bullets: https://www.4sigmabullets.com/shop/bullets/308-38gr-bullets/

 

[Certaindeaf]

The 375 H&H is a very versatile cartridge. If I lived in Africa that is what I would have.

I don't need much to make up for the loss of velocity as the intention is to use the load for grouse or rabbits and such. Hit with any .30 caliber bullet at almost any speed that would make the bullet leave the barrel, would do the job. This outfit sells 38 gr .30 cal cast AL bullets: https://www.4sigmabullets.com/shop/bullets/308-38gr-bullets/

I always remembered Jack O'Connor saying the .375 has the same trajectory as the 30-06.. I've always wanted one.

 

[03A3Sporter]

Heh, I cast gas checked Lyman 190's and use Red Dot out of my 03-A3 sporter.

I used to use large quantities of Red Dot for the same, switched to 2400 out of necessity then the 2400 has dried up mostly . Amazing how many rifle loads one can get from a pound of pistol powder

 

[Certaindeaf]

I used to use large quantities of Red Dot for the same, switched to 2400 out of necessity then the 2400 has dried up mostly . Amazing how many rifle loads one can get from a pound of pistol powder

Yea, I have 2400 but have generally used Red Dot for my reduced loads.
I've got plenty of that.

 

[3006shooter]

I think they were a precursor to the ballistic tip type of bullet. Kind of like the Winchester Silver Tip? To protect the tip?

Yup, they were the first tipped bullet. I believe Remington brought them out in the 30's or 40's, and to compete, Winchester developed the silver tip. Would be curious to know if O'Connor wrote about his opinions of the bronze points.