556 Case Trim Reloading Question

[tac]

I use a Lee trimmer for all my cartridges except the Snider. One gauge per calibre and one cutter that does them all, including .45-70 Govt [where necessary]. The shell holder goes in a little screwdriver/drill I bought from Walmart - the gauge goes into the neck of the case and hits the shell-holder through the primer hole. If it doesn't, then you trim it until it does and when it stops cutting then there is no more to cut. THEN, leaving the case in place, you can deburr inside and out.

Can't get much easier than that.

 

[HighlandLofts]

Brass needs to be trimed after resizing if it is over 1.760.
When the ball on the resizing stem pulls out of the case it stretches the case.
Read your reloading manual and stick with the measurements they have printed.

 

[tac]

Guess you got your answer, huh? I didn't realize you measured BEFORE sizing.

I do like @ron does. Except I'm not so concerned about trimming brass to the minimum, To me, as long as all case are below that max length by a good .004" that's good enough for me. Spend more time grinding brass if you want. But that Little Crow trimmer looks fun, so there's that. And for my purposes if I ran into a piece of brass that was a few thousandths short I wouldn't toss it. It'll still hold the bullet fine and have same COAL as the others.
I don't use case gauges. I use a Hornady Comparator, $35.00-$40.00 and it will do all bottle neck cases(As far as I know), compared to the LE Wilson case gauges at $28.00 each. The case gauge seems neat, but it doesn't tell you in .002"-.004" where the shoulder is at. https://www.brownells.com/reloading...ad-bullet-comparator-basic-set-prod35659.aspx
It measures the shoulder, which is what the case head spaces on.



Mmmm, that precision Mic looks like a fun toy Ron. I ought to ask you @ron . Are Garand chambers pretty uniform across the years? Generous? I just go by the book hoping I'm getting the proper OAL for my chambers on both rifles.

Mike, all Swedish Mausers , Mauser or Carl Gustaf-made, have VERY generous chambers - some more than others. The leade into the rifling is VERY long - in my 1898 m/96 I can actually balance a bullet on the neck of the case and still have a little jump before it engages the rifling......this is, I'm told, intentional, and a leftover from the first long straight-sided and round-nosed bullets.

 

[ma96782]

Uniformity.....
So then, you might just....do it all, by lots.

Buy one lot of brass or have one lot of once fired brass (from the same lot number of loaded ammo). From now on.....all of that brass gets the "same treatment".

So......say that 10 out of 100 needs trimming. Perhaps it's time to trim ALL of the brass from that lot. Same for the annealing. Hummmm.....

Or say that 10 out of the 100 lot has a split case, separated case body or split neck. Perhaps/Maybe, it's time to retire the entire lot?

You can pick your own number.

Thinking.....
Uniformity of the lot.

Not to mention that the bullet should get crimped at the same point. Hummm? Is that why some people insist on trimming (the entire lot) and a FCD (factory crimp die) when reloading for their favorite semi-auto?

BUT, But, but.....semi-auto brass should/could be treated differently from bolt or lever action brass. Right? I don't want to lose brass over such "practices" if it didn't need to undergo the "extra" effort.

Rrrrrrright.......it's all.......

Up To You.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....
Perhaps......it might just add to your scores? But.....whatever.

 

[ma96782]

RE: Post #23
So then......this is for someone who doesn't know.

So then.....
The same might/could also be said about the reloading practices for the .303 SMLE and No. 4 rifles. The chambers are "generous" and brass life suffers if you're not reloading for a specific rifle and keeping the brass separate from your other rifles of the same caliber. YouTube has plenty of videos on that subject.

But then....


Because mostly.....I don't and wouldn't want to own one in .303 caliber. But that's me. And then, I heard it was the chamber size not so much the leade cutting. But, whatever. And as always.....

Up To You.


Aloha, Mark

PS.....
And then.....
There is that.....
About the rimmed cartridge being different from a rimless cartridge. But.....whatever. Consider what is shown at 6:04.

 

[Mikej]

Mike, all Swedish Mausers , Mauser or Carl Gustaf-made, have VERY generous chambers - some more than others. The leade into the rifling is VERY long - in my 1898 m/96 I can actually balance a bullet on the neck of the case and still have a little jump before it engages the rifling......this is, I'm told, intentional, and a leftover from the first long straight-sided and round-nosed bullets.

Now are you saying that the chamber is also generous? I don't have the case gauge for 6.5 swede so haven't tried an un-sized case in one. I knew the "Lead" (couldn't think of that term, thanks for the reminder) was very long in these rifles. I was confident increasing the OAL some. I was happy as could be that I didn't need to bump the shoulder back to what the new PPU rounds were.

 

[tac]

Now are you saying that the chamber is also generous? I don't have the case gauge for 6.5 swede so haven't tried an un-sized case in one. I knew the "Lead" (couldn't think of that term, thanks for the reminder) was very long in these rifles. I was confident increasing the OAL some. I was happy as could be that I didn't need to bump the shoulder back to what the new PPU rounds were.

LeadE.

And PLEASE remember NOT to use SAAMI gauges in ANY older Swedish Mauser - you will get erroneous readings. Remember, too, not to use SAAMI gauges in ANY British/European/Finnish-made 6.5x55 firearms - they all conform to CIP dimensional data. Only US-made firearms can use SAAMI gauges for their version of older European cartridges.

 

[Eustace28]

New to rifle reloading myself but have been loading pistol for a few years. I first went with the rcbs hand crank case trimmer. It gets old fast for large batches. Ended up getting the Lyman case trim xpress and I am much happier with that task. It only works for cases with a shoulder so 30 carbine will still be on the slower model but it was a huge improvement for me.

 

[mobil890]

As long as the case length is below maximum case length, there is no need to trim.
Rifle brass tends to stretch out longer when fired. Pistol brass, not so much.

Not quite a true statement. If you plan on loading for an autoloader you should be crimping the bullet. Its important to trim all your cases to the same length for consistent tension. If you don't crimp you run the risk of bullet run out or set back. Could be detrimental to your health.

 

[DizzyJ]

Not quite a true statement. If you plan on loading for an autoloader you should be crimping the bullet. Its important to trim all your cases to the same length for consistent tension. If you don't crimp you run the risk of bullet run out or set back. Could be detrimental to your health.

Hmmm….
I've never crimped a rifle auto loader cartridge . Sufficient neck tension should be good enough to keep the bullet in place.

 

[mobil890]

Do as you like brother its your rifle. Have you ever looked at a factory loaded 223 case? The autoloader loads with a force that can dislodge the bullet. Bullet seating depth causes pressure fluctuations. For bolt rifles I would agree. Its a free country I was just making a suggestion. I always tell people that ask these questions to read you reloading book the answers are in there other wards your get good and bad information. I recommend you reading more about loading for autoloader. Peace out, good luck and God be with you.
Neck Tension

When we stop to consider the vigorous chambering cycle a loaded round endures in a Service Rifle, it becomes pretty clear it suffers abuse that would never happen in a bolt-action. This is simply the nature of the beast. It needs to be dealt with since there is no way around it.

There are two distinctly different forces that need to be considered: those that force the bullet deeper into the case, and those that pull it out of the case. When the round is stripped from the magazine and launched up the feed ramp, any resistance encountered by the bullet risks having it set back deeper into the case. Due to the abrupt stop the cartridge makes when the shoulder slams to a halt against the chamber, inertia dictates that the bullet will continue to move forward. This is exactly the same principle a kinetic bullet puller operates on, and it works within a chamber as well. Some years ago, we decided to examine this phenomenon more closely. During tests here at Sierra's range, we chambered a variety of factory Match ammunition in an AR-15 rifle. This ammunition was from one of the most popular brands in use today, loaded with Sierra's 69 grain MatchKing bullet. To conduct the test, we chambered individual rounds by inserting them into the magazines and manually releasing the bolt. We then repeated the tests by loading two rounds into the magazine, chambering and firing the first, and then extracting and measuring the second round. This eliminated any potential variation caused by the difference between a bolt that had been released from an open position (first round in the magazine) and those subsequent rounds that were chambered by the normal semi-automatic operation of the rifle. Measuring the rounds before chambering and then re-measuring after they were carefully extracted resulted in an average increase of three thousandths (0.003″) of forward bullet movement. Some individual rounds showed up to seven thousandths (0.007″) movement. Please bear in mind that these results were with factory ammunition, normally having a higher bullet pull than handloaded ammunition.

 

[mobil890]

I guess I shouldn't assume he is loading for an AR but he said 223 so I guessed but I highly recommend crimping for autoloader rifle.

 

[Xmark1]

Not quite a true statement. If you plan on loading for an autoloader you should be crimping the bullet. Its important to trim all your cases to the same length for consistent tension. If you don't crimp you run the risk of bullet run out or set back. Could be detrimental to your health.

I do not crimp.

 

[Xmark1]

Mikej , pardon the dumb question, but would 5.56 and .223 be the same length?

Thanks.

I believe that is the reason for the Wyld chamber.