45acp vs 10mm opinions

[terdog]

It did???

 

[Certaindeaf]

45acp vs 10mm Which is better, why and so on. ?

Neither. The 9x19 is king.

 

[oremike]

In my world 44 Mag, 10mm and 45 ACP all hold close to the same number of bullets. 6 in the 44, 7 in the 45 and 8 in the 10mm. The preferred bullet shape for Bear loads is a non-expanding TC shape. For the 45acp that bullet weighs 225gr's and runs about 850 fps. For the 10mm the bullet weighs 200grs and runs 1300 fps. The 44 Mag's big TC bullet is 300gr's and runs the same 1300fps. The 10 mm has a power factor of 260 and the 44 Mag has a power factor of 390. 8X260 = 2080 and 6X390=2340 The 44 Mag hits harder and penetrates deeper.

 

[OldBroad44]

Capacity is an advantage. I tell people if you had to shoot a bear with a pistol your also probably gonna have a physical fight on your hands too, is the most common outcome I read about.
This is one of my favorite bookmarks to share on 10mm bear defense... The guy won, "bearly"...
the pics are hard to look at...

A New Mexico Bear Attack Finally Stopped With a GLOCK 10mm Pistol - The Truth About Guns

On morning of July 25, 2018, Bridger Petrini was out near the Colorado border, working his dogs for the upcoming New Mexico bear season. He had purchased his professional guide service eight years earlier from his father, who started it in 1985. Bear season would open in less than three weeks...

web.archive.org

He coulda stopped the bear with a single shot into the brain. He used a 10mm jhp designed to expand optimally in the lightly built human chest instead of a bear load designed to penetrate deep into a bear skull. He shot into the body over and over. He could have done better with a .22 shot into the head. The only shots that will incapacitate a bear instantly are brain and spine, but spine is very difficult to hit.

" Capacity is an advantage" was NOT the correct conclusion. The right conclusion is for carry ammo intended for SD against bears, carry deep penetrating non-expanding flat point bear loads, and shoot the bear in the head.

The guide was probably used to shooting treed bears. You can kill those even with a suboptimal bullet such as the Hornady Critical Defense because you are normally some distance away. You don't need instant incapacitation, and you can shoot the bear in the head from the side, where the skull is thin. Traditionally, many treed bears in the South were shot with .22 rifles. If you are attacked by a bear its charging you, and only the first one or two shots aimed at the brain "count" with respect to surviving unscathed.

 

[Tlock]

He coulda stopped the bear with a single shot into the brain. He used a 10mm jhp designed to expand optimally in the lightly built human chest instead of a bear load designed to penetrate deep into a bear skull. He shot into the body over and over. He could have done better with a .22 shot into the head. The only shots that will incapacitate a bear instantly are brain and spine, but spine is very difficult to hit.

" Capacity is an advantage" was NOT the correct conclusion. The right conclusion is for carry ammo intended for SD against bears, carry deep penetrating non-expanding flat point bear loads, and shoot the bear in the head.

The guide was probably used to shooting treed bears. You can kill those even with a suboptimal bullet such as the Hornady Critical Defense because you are normally some distance away. You don't need instant incapacitation, and you can shoot the bear in the head from the side, where the skull is thin. Traditionally, many treed bears in the South were shot with .22 rifles. If you are attacked by a bear its charging you, and only the first one or two shots aimed at the brain "count" with respect to surviving unscathed.

Well put!

 

[terdog]

In my world 44 Mag, 10mm and 45 ACP all hold close to the same number of bullets. 6 in the 44, 7 in the 45 and 8 in the 10mm.

I would politely disagree with you.
45 and 10 can be double stack.
No 44 mag that I can think of.
Getting back on target for follow-up is a big advantage.

 

[Bobbygun]

I would politely disagree with you.
45 and 10 can be double stack.
No 44 mag that I can think of.
Getting back on target for follow-up is a big advantage.

If only they double stacked the Desert Eagle .44 magnum. Kicks like a baby. Of course, if you're big enough to lug one of those around in grizzly country, maybe we should arm the grizzly to even things out.

 

[terdog]

I couldn't even imagine how heavy that would be. Might as well make it a 50AE!

At one point I owned a Coonan. I thought THAT was heavy.

 

[OldBroad44]

Actually, two traditional rounds used for SD against or hunting bears or hogs were/are hot .44 special or .45 Colt rounds. Flat nose or flat nosed semi wadcutters such as Keith loads. Heavy fat hard cast bullets loaded to about 800 ft lbs, not the wimpy standard commercial versions at more like 300. Or a .44mag bullet of the same design loaded down to about 800 ft lbs instead of the more typical .44 mag hunting power of 1000 -1200 ft lbs. The higher number is better for shooting beyond 50 yards. But for SD or usual handgun hunting range 800 ft lbs was all you needed assuming a fat flat nosed hard cast bullet. And for bear SD anything more powerful in a handgun was counterproductive because the heavier recoil slows down followup shots without killing the bear any faster or deader from a head shot.

As for killing the bear better from a body shot...no handgun load is adequate to reliably instantly incapacitate a bear from a body shot. This is why some guys, like @Ura-Ki , prefer a rifle for woods SD. In addition having to come to someone's aid from a distance is an issue. Ura-Ki had to shoot a cougar from a distance one day when it leaped on his brother when they were both fishing. With the cougar actually on his brother and the distance shot, only a rifle (and emergency medical skills) could have let Ura-Ki save his brother that day.

 

[oremike]

I would politely disagree with you.
45 and 10 can be double stack.
No 44 mag that I can think of.
Getting back on target for follow-up is a big advantage.

I preferenced my statement with "in my world" maybe I should have said " of the guns in my collection" My 1911 holds 7 45 acp, my Sig P-220 holds 8 10 mm and my Redhawk holds 6 44 Mag.

 

[terdog]

I understood what you said.
The point is that a semi auto of the "plastic " persuasion has a distinct advantage in capacity.
G29, G20, G40, XDm etc.
They also are better at being able to stay and get on target for a follow-up.

While I LOVE my 1911's, I know that in certain situations they are not the best tool for the job.

 

[Tlock]

the accuracy and availability to get back on target is hard to beat in this set up

 

[oremike]

I understood what you said.
The point is that a semi auto of the "plastic " persuasion has a distinct advantage in capacity.
G29, G20, G40, XDm etc.
They also are better at being able to stay and get on target for a follow-up.

While I LOVE my 1911's, I know that in certain situations they are not the best tool for the job.

You do you then, and I'll do me. I've got enough plastic fantastic guns and much prefer my ones made of steel. I've had both the Glock 40 MOS and a 5.25 XDm and for me with full house loads my Sig P-220 is a much better gun than either of those. Faster shot to shot and more accurate at 25 yds again with 1300FPS 200gr TC bullets make IMHO the Sig the better firearm.

 

[Koda]

While I LOVE my 1911's, I know that in certain situations they are not the best tool for the job.

The only disadvantage is the capacity, I fully acknowledge that but I still carry mine for bear protection. I do keep a spare mag on my pack belt for fast access. 9 rounds of full house 10mm is not a bad loadout.

 

[Koda]

Ura-Ki had to shoot a cougar from a distance one day when it leaped on his brother when they were both fishing. With the cougar actually on his brother and the distance shot, only a rifle (and emergency medical skills) could have let Ura-Ki save his brother that day.

Now thats a story I would love the hear the full version.

 

[terdog]

You do you then, and I'll do me. I've got enough plastic fantastic guns

Of course.

We all have our own check list of qualities that we need/want.
If I'm snowmobiling/dirt biking, it's in a small chest pack. My needs are power, compactness, light weight and capacity. Same needs when hiking. Jeepin means that I may change to my VBOB. Or my XD-m. Or my BANSHEE.

BACK TO OUR ORIGINAL THREAD.

 

[terdog]

Here's a link to some good 10mm testing.
He's tested many different 10mm ammos with both 5" 1911 and SA Elite Compact 3.8".

 

[boattail]

Random thoughts on this subject from a wheel gun guy…..

I had a short barreled 10mm. Accurate as any hand gun could be and pleasant to shoot. Two issues were short barrel and being a revolver meant loss of power. Kinda wasted in that gun. It was a love hate deal for as is shot great but had no advantage over other calibers I have.

45 acp in a Ruger convertible revolver with a 4 5/8" barrel was ideal for me. I can shoot any 45 acp round and then swap cylinders to 45 Colt and load 325 bear loads that equal a 44 magnum.

 

[OrPackrat]

I've had 45 in the past, ended up not shooting it much and got rid of it.

Recently, I went into 10mm, G40 Gen4 MOS.

114, I got a little 44 magnum with 4" (wanted the 8" but not available at the time). For the 44mag, first time shooting it was with the new gun, loaded a single round, that was fun. Shooting 2 handed, all day long, one handed, can be done, won't want to shoot it much.

Getting a 1911 10mm long slide, (114 complient is the excuse).

Recoil on the 10mm with a long slide, easy, for example. My wife, still new to firearms, loves her G2C 9mm, she tried a 38spl in a snub nose, hates it and the recoil, she loves the G40, especially with its green dot sight.

10mm, in the right platform, is a very easy to shoot caliber. My 44mag I got, I won't ever hand that to my wife to shoot based on how the 38spl was for her.

Had a chance to shoot some 10mm into ballistics gel, S&B 180gr JHP made a nice hole with good expansion, penetrated like a 9mm but with a lot more jump...

If my wife can handle the 10mm, load dependant on the task, most should handle it well.. Not sure how my wife would like a 45 but I would imagine, she would prefer the 10mm.

 

[Bam]

I picked up a P320 Xten this weekend and took it out for the first time. I like it, ALOT.

Feels incredibly good with 200GR hardcast, I always hated shooting 40S&W, but I love shooting this.

This will be my new hiking gun once I get a few more rounds through it and feel confident. As well as this thing shoots I would feel safe carrying it with hard cast bullets. I am more confident shooting this under stress than my .460.