357 Sig question

[red442joe]

LET ME NOTE HERE; The 357SIG is the only commercial bottleneck cartridge in the history of the world designed to headspace off the front [LOA ] of the cartridge case, NOT off the shoulder.

I have had two factory Glock 357 Sig barrels....
One with a distinct step for the case mouth to stop on.
The second had no step, was a gradual taper from case mouth to rifling.
I could find NO way to headspace off the case mouth;
The first was difficult to get consistant headspacing without trimming all cases to the same oal.
The shoulders of both barrels were located exactly the same. Die adjustment to the shoulder resulted in consistant cartridge headspace, and ignition, for both barrels.
There seems to be much controversy, with little consensus, regarding 357 Sig headspacing.
My loads have had no problems.

Joe

 

[Xmark1]

I have had two factory Glock 357 Sig barrels....
One with a distinct step for the case mouth to stop on.
The second had no step, was a gradual taper from case mouth to rifling.
I could find NO way to headspace off the case mouth.
The first was difficult to get consistant headspacing without trimming all cases to the same oal.
The shoulders of both barrels were located exactly the same. Die adjustment to the shoulder resulted in consistant cartridge headspace, and ignition, for bothe barrels.
There seems to be much controversy, with little consensus, regarding 357 Sig headspacing.
My loads have had no problems.

Joe

I agree.

I have both RCBS & Hornady new dimension dies for 357sig and cannot bump the shoulder. The shell holder hits the die mouth.

It's a difficult case to reload. The expander ball on the RCBS is too big, leaving me with only .002 for neck tension, so I use the Hornady die that has no expander ball and leaves me with about .006 for neck tension. I like consistent and firm neck tension on this cartridge.

It's always something!

 

[red442joe]

I agree.

I have both RCBS & Hornady new dimension dies for 357sig and cannot bump the shoulder. The shell holder hits the die mouth.

It's a difficult case to reload. The expander ball on the RCBS is too big, leaving me with only .002 for neck tension, so I use the Hornady die that has no expander ball and leaves me with about .006 for neck tension. I like consistent and firm neck tension on this cartridge.

It's always something!

Many seem to have neck tension problems.
I too use about 6 thou', have no bullet tension issues.

Joe

 

[The Courier]

Get some Blue Dot or 800x powder if you're going to reload hot 357 sig.

 

[Xmark1]

Get some Blue Dot or 800x powder if you're going to reload hot 357 sig.

Yep. I use Blue Dot.

9.5gr gives me a MV of 1400 using Montana Gold HP 124's

 

[oremike]

I'll start out with Longshot powder because that's what I've got.

 

[oremike]

On further refection I'll probably not load this commercially, It looks to be just too fussy to load on a progressive press. I'm am thinking to load it for my own personal use with these bullets:

.355 diameter, 68 grain Xtreme Defense Bullets (100 count)

The advanced technology Xtreme Defense Fluid Transfer Monolithic (XD FTM) is changing the way self-defense bullets are perceived. This bullet is optimal for use in 9mm Luger, .357 SIG, and .380 Auto handgun loads.

lehighdefense.com

 

[Nosferatu]

On further refection I'll probably not load this commercially, It looks to be just too fussy to load on a progressive press. I'm am thinking to load it for my own personal use with these bullets:

.355 diameter, 68 grain Xtreme Defense Bullets (100 count)

The advanced technology Xtreme Defense Fluid Transfer Monolithic (XD FTM) is changing the way self-defense bullets are perceived. This bullet is optimal for use in 9mm Luger, .357 SIG, and .380 Auto handgun loads.

lehighdefense.com

Holy carp, 68gr? That thing would be a ~2300fps screamer in 9x25!

 

[oremike]

Holy carp, 68gr? That thing would be a ~2300fps screamer in 9x25!

The load data they have shows somewhere between 16-1800 fps and the discussion says 18" of penetration.

 

[Nosferatu]

The load data they have shows somewhere between 16-1800 fps and the discussion says 18" of penetration.

That's VERY conservative then. Doubletap gets ~2100fps from a 77gr bullet, which I confirmed through my XDM.

 

[oremike]

I got the Lone Wolfe/Alpha Wolfe barrel for my 40 Shield yesterday and scored 2 boxes (100 rounds) of Speer 125gr ammo. One of Lawman FMJ and one of Gold Dots. Being that guy that can't not shoot a new gun I went to a local BLM stockpile for a Fam Fire. Everything went well, I will say super sonic in a lttle gun is LOUD. I'm glad I wore plugs and muffs LOUD. I didn't find the recoil to be bad at all, and was able to see the bullet strikes before any muzzle jump. Over all I'm going to leave that barrel in my Shield as my self defense gun/load. I haven't got to the reloading part of this experiment but think it'll be fussy to reload and should be done on a single stage press. I'll run a test using new Starline brass to see if it'll be ok on the progressive before I add it to my line up.

 

[oremike]

So where I'm at with this is I now have a Gen 4 Glock 32 with a lone wolfe barrel, a Sig 229 with a Sig 357 Sig barrel and the M&P 40 Shield with the Alpha Wolf barrel. That should cover my bases for test fixtures. I scored some cases at the last gun show and today will be ordering some 124gr Extreme HP's as a starting point for load development and testing. I've got some Lehigh bullets to test but figured I'd start with a more standard load to set my benchmark.

 

[unionguy]

I carried a 357sig for years.....loved it! Just expensive to shoot on the regular

Same. Great cartridge, shame it didnt' catch on. Very accurate and flat shooting for me too. I still have a .357sig conversion barrel for my M&P .40.

 

[red442joe]

fussy to reload

Granted, I haven't done a great many....but for the two Glock barrels I have loaded for, the shoulders were in the exact same place, best I could measure. I had no issues with headspace, ignition, accuracy, bullet tension/setback, or sizing. It really seemed to be pleasant to reload.

Joe

 

[gmerkt]

The tricky part of reloading it is that there is very, very little neck to work with

Can I use the hugh stock of 9mm parabellum projectiles I already have or do I need to buy .357 sig bullets with the canalure in the right spot

The 357 Sig gets a light taper crimp just to remove the belling not a roll crimp so no cantilure needed or used.

Many seem to have neck tension problems.

I've looked at factory .357 Sig ammo, some come with cannelured bullets, some don't. Those than don't may incorporate techniques that reloaders don't have recourse to.

I've especially noted Hornady bullets for .357 Sig factory ammo have the cannelure. I don't see a specific loose bullet listed for .357 Sig as a component for reloaders. They make three loaded cartridges in .357. Two have expanding bullets, and the third takes a solid tip conical shaped bullet of 135 gr. This last one is listed in their separate law enforcement website and is shown as "training ammunition."

Midway sells a 9mm bullet that I believe is an overrun of the Hornady 135 gr. conical bullet made for .357 Sig training ammo:

Factory Second Bullets 9mm (355 Diameter) 135 Grain Full Metal Jacket

MidwayUSA has just made a huge purchase of blemished bullets and we are passing the savings to our customers. Blemished bullets are bulk-packaged,...

www.midwayusa.com

I've ordered this product several times over the past few years. It's sold by Midway as a factory second bullet. IMPORTANT NOTE: Midway states in this listing that the bullet MAY OR MAY NOT have the cannelure present. In my experience, I've gotten the cannelure 75% of the time. The 135 gr. weight mimics their .357 Sig factory cartridge with the fancy defensive bullet in shape and weight.

 

[oremike]

An update, I decided to put the 40 barrel back in the M&P Shield so the slide and barrel are marked the same. I have a Gen4 Glock 32 and a Sig P-229 as dedicated 357 Sig test fixtures.
I made 100 rounds of ammo as a first run to test. I decided to go with Berrys 124gr Hollow base, thick plated Flat points because they are rated at 1500 FPS and most other plated bullets are rated at 1200 FPS. Book value for this load should be around 1400 fps. For powder I used AA #9. I took my time setting up this to run on my Hornady Lock N Load setting up each station to do exactly as I wanted then going back and fixing my adjustments until I could get the ammo to run all the way thru the 5 stations and be perfect.
This afternoon I took the ammo and guns out to the BLM stock pile just to see what was what. I'm happy to report the Glock was flawless I've "tuned" it up with an Alpha Wolf rifled barrel and a Tungsten guide rod. This is my first mid-sized Glock and it feels just right both in weight and size. Shooting the 357 Sig was easy, loud but easy. I didn't mind the recoil at all and running all 12 rounds out of the magazine went fast with no issues. The P-229 was a bit fussyier I was able to run all 12 rounds thru but had feed issues so I need to figure out if it's a gun, magazine or ammo issue. It's a factory reconditioned 40 S&W that I bought a new factory 357 Sig barrel for. All in all I had fun and will say I'm liking the 357 sig.

 

[TTSX]

When you have production up and running I'd be interested in a few boxes

 

[oremike]

I shot the 357's again yesterday on an overcast day and saw I was getting a lot of muzzle flash from the AA#9 powder so next batch I'll use a faster powder like Longshot, or #7.

 

[TTSX]

If you want to borrow my alpha wolf 357 barrel I use in my Glock 35, you're welcome to. Should drop right into a Glock 22 if you have one. Might help you determine where you want to be with flash/velocity in longer barrels, too

 

[oremike]

Thanks for the offer, I've got to set this project aside and get back to production loading. I'll get back to it as time allows.