.308 problems

[7SFCW4]

I have reloaded 308 for many years. Type of case lube makes a big difference. In the olden days RCBS
lube pad was the only method. Having used Hornady and Dillon lube I much prefer the home made lanolin
and alcohol. Much easier to clean off. To clean off the lube after sizing mist with water and roll in a bath towel.
As others said you have to let it dry a few minutes. https://ultimatereloader.com/2017/05/09/make-your-own-case-lube/

I am going to have to dump this 308 Savage now. Maybe I can get $100 for it???I didn't know 6.5 BleedMore RULES.
5 shot groups at 100 yards
View attachment 821518

.308 at 100 yards? That target is NOT fair! You should be shooting M&M candies at that range!

 

[7SFCW4]

Full Size Re-Sizing, DILLON CASE LUBE SPRAY, great lube, high alcohol content, works like a charm, then trim to length. Max pressure loads may give you velocity but are hard on the barrel and hard on the case. The Sierra Match King 175 grain is always a strong performer. Dont forget the primer pocket when re-loading or prepping brass. Also, watch for a "ridge" around the primer hole on some military brass that also needs to be removed.

 

[tac]

Imperial sizing wax, RCBS standard dies, maybe a thousand rounds a year since the early 80's.

Never any problems of any kind.

You have some spiffy gear there, and I have a single-stage Rockchucker - since 1978. One of us is doing something right, for sure.

 

[Cannonman]

Hey Ron, would you please share the stats on your .308 loads? The new 6ARC was an interesting ordnance at a local gun shop. They had stacks and stack of it. I asked the counter person why and if they even had a 6ARC gun there. He said no guns, but that they were to take these rounds if they wanted anything else I'm guessing that Hornady has a lot invested in this.

 

[ma96782]

I suspect that some say that they aren't getting enough sizing because they don't CAM OVER.

Stick to the end to learn about" Cam Over".

Aloha, Mark

 

[Xaevian]

I have reloaded 308 for many years. Type of case lube makes a big difference. In the olden days RCBS
lube pad was the only method. Having used Hornady and Dillon lube I much prefer the home made lanolin
and alcohol. Much easier to clean off. To clean off the lube after sizing mist with water and roll in a bath towel.
As others said you have to let it dry a few minutes. https://ultimatereloader.com/2017/05/09/make-your-own-case-lube/

I am going to have to dump this 308 Savage now. Maybe I can get $100 for it???I didn't know 6.5 BleedMore RULES.
5 shot groups at 100 yards
View attachment 821518

Sweet Savage goodness. Nice to see that not everyone has tossed their perfectly fine .308 for the next wonder caliber...



Like 6mm ARC, 6.8 Western...yadda yadda

 

[7SFCW4]

Imperial sizing wax, RCBS standard dies, maybe a thousand rounds a year since the early 80's.

Never any problems of any kind.

You have some spiffy gear there, and I have a single-stage Rockchucker - since 1978. One of us is doing something right, for sure.

Everyone needs a single stage BIG GREEN RCBS Rock Chucker WITH the "50 Cal" ring

 

[No_Regerts]

I was thinking it could be lack of lube at the case mouth also.
If it's right at the beginning of the downstroke, it could be that the decapping pin is wedged into the flash hole. I had some brass, I forget which make, that about 5% of them had teeny tiny flash holes.

I hate it when the hole is tiny and its hard to insert on the downstroke.

 

[homeuser6]

what is the advantage of cam over ? compared to dead stopping the shell holder on the die before reaching camover.

 

[matts]

I have reloaded 308 for many years. Type of case lube makes a big difference. In the olden days RCBS
lube pad was the only method. Having used Hornady and Dillon lube I much prefer the home made lanolin
and alcohol. Much easier to clean off. To clean off the lube after sizing mist with water and roll in a bath towel.
As others said you have to let it dry a few minutes. https://ultimatereloader.com/2017/05/09/make-your-own-case-lube/

I am going to have to dump this 308 Savage now. Maybe I can get $100 for it???I didn't know 6.5 BleedMore RULES.
5 shot groups at 100 yards
View attachment 821518

Sell it quick, i might give you$250 if you include some defective rounds, looking like most of them missed the target all together or something?

 

[plain ol Bill]

I had a few minutes this morning so I double checked my full length dies for "cam over". Adjusted them down just a hair - pulled the pin out of the die. Set up the small base dies next to the full size, adjusted it and pulled the pin out of it also.
Ran out of time and had to work on the honey do list then had a welding job to do. Will keep you folks posted on any progress

 

[ma96782]

what is the advantage of cam over ? compared to dead stopping the shell holder on the die before reaching camover.

Try an experiment with your resized brass using both techniques.

If it works for YOU.....fine.

++++++++

That being said.....
I've tried it.....
MInd you that I usually shoot my .308W through a semi auto rifle.

So, with my cam over brass.....it will pass my gauge test.

While if I just touch the shell holder, the ammo won't pass my gauge test.

BUT THEN.....some shooters prefer to only touch the shell holder. Think of it like "neck sizing". Hummmm......bolt action shooters looking for mucho accuracy. Rrrright.....and some of them won't/don't even like crimps.

While on the other hand.....
There are shooters who are looking to use their ammo in several different firearms. Yup.....They want and expect that their ammo will work in any rifle of that caliber. And not to mention, the "bullet jump" and rough handling that a cartridge is subjected to in a semi-auto (or F/A) action. So, crimping the bullet is very important to them.

Different strokes for different folks.

Aloha, Mark

PS....STORY TIME......

My reloaded ammo fit my M1a easily. But, when I tried the same ammo in my bolt action Rem 700....well, it didn't chamber. That batch of ammo got regulated for use only in the M1a. Humm.....but, I don't want that to happen again. So, I screwed down the re-sizing die down a bit more. The new ammo is just passing, in the gauge test. Remember, there is a high and a low cut, to test the re-sized brass to still be acceptable. Now, the ammo would work in both rifles.

Bottom line: chambers vary and a little bit could be all the difference.

 

[2ndtimer]

Are you using any kind of lube (case lube, graphite) on the inside of the case necks? I use an RCBS nylon brush with just a trace of Hornady Unique case lube on the fingers and have had no problems sizing military .308 Win. brass on my RC II rock chucker. Have you measured the unsized cases down near the base versus sized cases that fit the chamber gauge? It sounds like you have some cases that may have been loaded hot and fired in a sloppy chamber. How are the primer pockets? I would be checking those as well. You may be spending some time and energy on cases not safe to reload. You can get a primer pocket go/no go gauge here:

Swage Gage ® Large Primer Pocket Gauge

Swage Gage Large Primer Pocket Gauge

ballistictools.com

 

[wct0415]

These are all marked .308 not 7.62. I am using a Lyman turret press. Lubing with Lee lube, finger applied so far. Normally that makes a tough round go thru a die like green grass thru a goose, but not with these. RCBS full length dies, RCBS "small base" also. Got my dies screwed down to the nervous point. Feels like the base wants to rip off trying to come out of the dies. Nervous Nelly I guess. Will tighten up more and keep trying. Cases are showing really shiny the last 1/4" coming out of the die. A sign of some real pressure at the bases.

When you bring the case up into the die, a sure way to know that you are getting the full stroke the handle should cam-over slightly. This tells you that the shell is going fully into the die.

 

[ma96782]

Story Time-Military brass.......

OK, I use to buy 1x fired 7.62 x51 mm Nato brass from the recycle place in Hawaii. They probably got it from the base. Back then, M60s were what most of the ammo was shot out of.

Anyway, the brass was difficult to re-size. I believe that the M60's chambers were "generous." Hey, it's a machine gun.

FF today.....the surplus LC brass is probably coming from a M240.

Anyway, I still use a F/L re-sizer and got into the habit of using a gauge to test my re-sized brass.

++++++++++

Also, know that Nato spec brass is normally thicker brass vs commercial brass. So, it'll normally be tougher to re-size.

Aloha, Mark

 

[wct0415]

Try an experiment with your resized brass using both techniques.

If it works for YOU.....fine.

++++++++

That being said.....
I've tried it.....
MInd you that I usually shoot my .308W through a semi auto rifle.

So, with my cam over brass.....it will pass my gauge test.

While if I just touch the shell holder, the ammo won't pass my gauge test.

BUT THEN.....some shooters prefer to only touch the shell holder. Think of it like "neck sizing". Hummmm......bolt action shooters looking for mucho accuracy. Rrrright.....and some of them won't/don't even like crimps.

While on the other hand.....
There are shooters who are looking to use their ammo in several different firearms. Yup.....They want and expect that their ammo will work in any rifle of that caliber. And not to mention, the "bullet jump" and rough handling that a cartridge is subjected to in a semi-auto (or F/A) action. So, crimping the bullet is very important to them.

Different strokes for different folks.

Aloha, Mark

PS....STORY TIME......

My reloaded ammo fit my M1a easily. But, when I tried the same ammo in my bolt action Rem 700....well, it didn't chamber. That batch of ammo got regulated for use only in the M1a. Humm.....but, I don't want that to happen again. So, I screwed down the re-sizing die down a bit more. The new ammo is just passing, in the gauge test. Remember, there is a high and a low cut, to test the re-sized brass to still be acceptable. Now, the ammo would work in both rifles.

Bottom line: chambers vary and a little bit could be all the difference.

I load 308 for both my ar10 and my Savage 10 FCPK, my AR will accept anything that I throw at it. My savage absolutely despise any MIL spec brass. Mil brass will not eject once fired, gets stuck in the chamber. I am ok with that since I only have to neck size my Winchester brass and my recipe for this load is very specific anyway.

 

[ron]

Hey Ron, would you please share the stats on your .308 loads? The new 6ARC was an interesting ordnance at a local gun shop. They had stacks and stack of it. I asked the counter person why and if they even had a 6ARC gun there. He said no guns, but that they were to take these rounds if they wanted anything else I'm guessing that Hornady has a lot invested in this.

LC 89 match once fired brass, 168 SMK and IMR 4064

 

[rb2point0]

I love my M14 (M1A) and don't need no teenage queen!

You asked "penny for my thoughts" so this is my two cents worth.

I've loaded 1000's of .308 round using Nato spec brass for my M1A match rifle with no problems. I have a Lee Classic Turret press and use it like a single stage for these and I use Lee dies. For lube I use Imperial sizing die wax. Sometimes they seem just a touch long (.001 or .002) when put in my Wilson Headspace gauge, then I measure the case for headspace and it passes my specs. I always resize to ~.004-5 shy of my chamber (I got the headspace data when I bought the rifle). My rifle is at 1.632 so I size to ~1.628±.001. I once borrowed a SB (small base) RCBS die from an armorer buddy, it was a bubblegum to size the cases. Cranking the diameter that extra .002 at the base end is a big pita! On the opposite end of the spectrum I got some reloaded match ammo (1 or 2x firings) from a buddy I shoot with whom I trust. He sized his brass for both his and his wife's rifles to a headspace of around 1.622 or so. I had two instances of case head separation and two more cracked cases out of 20! This was also Federal brass, not Nato. Point being, too much slop (over sizing w.r.t. head spade) can cause excessive expansion of the brass resulting in issues. I've heard it said that M14's eat brass, I believe it's from cranking the cases back to "factory" size. I say this because I managed to get 6 loads out of a set of 500 pieces of Nato brass before I began to see any signs of the case thinning near the base. There was a slight shinny ring and I could feel it inside with a bent paper clip, which I verified with a borescope. At that it was in only ~2-3 % of the cases, and I did not see any cases where external cracks were visible. I recycled the batch and brought up another group of 1X fired Nato brass. BTW to me it doesn't matter if it's LC, WCC, CBC or whomever, it's all built to the same specification.

Cheers!

 

[tac]

Everyone needs a single stage BIG GREEN RCBS Rock Chucker WITH the "50 Cal" ring

Sure thing - you send me the $500 and I'll order one right away! And THANKS!

 

[DizzyJ]

Sounds like you got some "once fired" brass out of a sloppy chamber.

This. Probably fired out of a machine-gun chamber.