30-06 Ackley improved

[szach56]

I have a couple 30-06 rifles and looking to re barrel one of them. I'm thinking about getting it chambered for 6.5-06 but also Interested in the 30-06 AI. If anyone has experience with the AI and could maybe share some info, how much of a velocity gain you get or how many more grains a typical charge would take. If it's not worth it I'd rather not take the time.

Read More

 

[Nosferatu]

+100-200FPS, depending on barrel length.

 

[leverite]

Just hot load your 30-06 or get a 300mag.
As Barsness explains, most velocity gain from Ackley-ing is simply hotter loading. He has studied it extensively and concludes that from a 4% increased powder capacity in the AI cartridge produces only a 1% velocity gain. Velocity increases above that are from higher pressure.
Modern powders can give the 06 higher velocities than using traditional powders. Why mess with AI?

 

[orygun]

Yes. I have experience with the 30-06AI and you can read about it here. If I was to do it all over again, i probably wouldn't, but there is one thing I really like about it. When loaded to still be hotter than a 30-06, but not to max, it's incredibly accurate. Much more so than the gun was originally.
FYI, I've shot and chronoed some of the "super performance" ammo for the 30-06. The only real thing I noticed was the amount of money it cost compared to "normal" ammo. Never was it as fast as advertised.

Anyone ever play with a 30-06 Ackley Improved?

I love the 30-06, but I'm also a sucker for the unusual. So, I'm giving thought to having one of my 30-06s rechambered to 30-06 Improved. Anyone have any experience with the 30-06 Ackley Improved? If so, what did you think of it? What kind of velocity increase did you see?

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[leverite]

AI'd a 30-30 once. Got higher velocity but miserable accuracy...and a rifle that was impossible to sell afterwards. I wanted near 308 win performance...should have sold the 30-30 and bought a 308. But some of us love to experiment...

If maximizing velocity is all important with either the 06 or the 06 AI it will be a handloading proposition...and you will really have no safety net. Rechambering to 300 Win mag gets you that all important velocity gain without overpressure.
Chasing the extra fps is a bit archaic now anyway. Range finders and scopes with dial up turrets or holdover reticles have made the need for "flat shooting" velocities less important for sighting.
But, tweaking our gear can be fun.

 

[Koda]

Im actually a fan of Ackley Improving except im not certain the 150ish fps would be worth it in the 30-06 which is already a more than capable enough caliber.
If I had two -06s and wanted to modify one id rebarrel it in a totally different caliber. Currently enjoying my 280AI....

 

[leverite]

I have an 06 I want to rebarrel too. Would like lower recoil for bench sessions and longer range shooting.
Can a long action work for 6.5 or 6 creedmore?
What calibers look good to you?
Excuse...this probably should be a new thread.

 

[Nosferatu]

I have an 06 I want to rebarrel too. Would like lower recoil for bench sessions and longer range shooting.
Can a long action work for 6.5 or 6 creedmore?

Yes. However, push feeds can sometimes have hangups depending on the bullet design.

What calibers look good to you?

A fast-twist .25-06

Excuse...this probably should be a new thread.

Probably.

 

[orygun]

If maximizing velocity is all important with either the 06 or the 06 AI it will be a handloading proposition...and you will really have no safety net.

Explain, please. Loading data is available for both cartridges and there is plenty available for the 30-06 that is faster than production ammo.

Guaranteed that with the exception of the 280AI, every AI cartridge requires handloading. When I had my rifle rechambered I liked working up loads. These days I don't have as much free time to give to the "sport". Probably the main reason I'd not do it all over again.

 

[leverite]

Explain, please. Loading data is available for both cartridges and there is plenty available for the 30-06 that is faster than production ammo.

Guaranteed that with the exception of the 280AI, every AI cartridge requires handloading. When I had my rifle rechambered I liked working up loads. These days I don't have as much free time to give to the "sport". Probably the main reason I'd not do it all over again.

Whose loading data and how recent? AI's (except 280ai) are wildcats so I don't believe that any powder/bullet companies post current data.
Much of the 06 data is ancient. Powder formulas have been modified.
Lots of internet data...how old...
what pressure, what factors of safety?
Who do you trust for an exta 150fps that fades away after a few hundred yards?

 

[MikeInOr]

6.5-06 will give you something new and different. When Ackley developed his cartridges there were not the plethora of cartridges available today. To me bumping out the shoulders to create an Ackley version of a cartridge doesn't makes sense these days from a practical standpoint. If you want to have an Ackley cartridge for fun then go for it!

 

[orygun]

Whose loading data and how recent? AI's (except 280ai) are wildcats so I don't believe that any powder/bullet companies post current data.
Much of the 06 data is ancient. Powder formulas have been modified.
Lots of internet data...how old...
what pressure, what factors of safety?
Who do you trust for an exta 150fps that fades away after a few hundred yards?

Sierra and Nosler are two, and the books are recent.

 

[ilostmypswrd]

Just hot load your 30-06 or get a 300mag.
As Barsness explains, most velocity gain from Ackley-ing is simply hotter loading. He has studied it extensively and concludes that from a 4% increased powder capacity in the AI cartridge produces only a 1% velocity gain. Velocity increases above that are from higher pressure.
Modern powders can give the 06 higher velocities than using traditional powders. Why mess with AI?

Cuz its cool man lolololol

 

[orygun]

Cuz its cool man lolololol

That's kind of why I did it. It is cool. It's also a lot of work dealing with the whole fireforming/load workup. It's also somewhat satisfyingly if one likes projects like this. As can be seen above, there are some who argue about it, but it's not their rifle! I figgered if I didn't like it, I'd end up getting the rifle rebarreled.
Another point is that the Ackley chamber is supposed to work with factory ammo. Mine does, sorta, but it's not consistent and I'd not hunt with standard 30-06 ammo.

 

[whiskeybill]

The only AI I have experience with is the .257 Roberts AI, and it's probably one of the few cartridges that truly improved performance. But it was a real challenge getting loads worked up, even with "reliable" published data. It will run neck and neck with a 25-'06. It was something I just wanted to do, but now that I've done it, my curiosity is satisfied. Sometimes I wish I had just left the rifle chambered in Roberts.

 

[orygun]

The only AI I have experience with is the .257 Roberts AI, and it's probably one of the few cartridges that truly improved performance. But it was a real challenge getting loads worked up, even with "reliable" published data. It will run neck and neck with a 25-'06. It was something I just wanted to do, but now that I've done it, my curiosity is satisfied. Sometimes I wish I had just left the rifle chambered in Roberts.

The 257 really responds well to the "Ackley Improvement", even better than the 280. The rifle I've been hunting with so far this year is a 257 Roberts. Yesterday evening, as I was loading cartridges into it, I had the thoughts about the 257 AI, but quickly chased those ideas out of my head! Even though this 1941 Winchester 70 has seen lots of mods, it's chamber is original and it can just stay that way!

 

[Dozer99]

25-06. That's the answer.

Now, what was the question again?

 

[3MTA3]

Except for a few notable cartridges like the 257 AI and the 280 AI the cjief advantage of AI is longer brass life. Most of those newfangled cartridges use AI principles for the same reason - case life and efficiency.

 

[whiskeybill]

I'd love to post some pics, but most of my reloading room is packed up. Anyway, while developing loads for the 257 AI, I found some published data to be quite disturbing. The data was out of the Sierra 5th Edition, and the powder was IMR 4350. The brass had already been formed with 117 Gr Sierra bullets, so I stayed with the same bullet and used the published AI data. The first shot seemed a bit hot, and the bolt was a little stiff to open. The next shot, well, that bolt was down tight and I had to use the bench edge to get it open. The case shoulder was collapsed, the spent primer just fell out. I was getting detonation with that load. I talked to the 'smith that built the rifle for me, and he told me I needed to use a much slower powder with more load density. Once I got the recipes straightened out, it was smooth sailing. I took the rifle out to the Aleutians on a Caribou hunt in 2007 and got two nice bulls with it. I found out why the 257 Roberts is a very popular rifle / cartridge for Caribou among Alaskans.