.25ACP deer hunting

[raftman]

Try reading the post above yours. A 45 grain .25 auto has a muzzle velocity of 815 fps out of a 2" barrel

So I guess we have a miracle

How about you try reading first. fps= feet per second, a measure of velocity, this is not remotely the same thing as foot pounds, which is a unit of energy. The post actually states:

"45gr JHP has a muzzle velocity of 815 fps and a muzzle energy of 66 ft-lbf"

I'm not a mathematician, but last I checked 66 is not greater than or equal to 300.

 

[Mark W.]

Hey Raftman WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

I commented on your comment that quoted this post:

Originally Posted by mjbskwim
...
A 25 would be lucky to have 300f#s at the muzzle.
...

Your post is as follows:

Not merely lucky, it would take nothing short of a miracle!

Which to me sure looked like you were commenting on the velocity of the .25ACP round NOT the Muzzle energy unless in your world f#s (as used by the post you were quoting in your post that I then commented on) would be a short hand for muzzle energy

I am very very clear on what I said are you?

 

[Mark W.]

WOW the amount of disinformation in this thread is amazing. Have any of you actually read a ballistics table for a .22LR or a .25 ACP?

To make a comment that they don't use 4" barrels with .25ACP is because they don't have enough energy to travel the length of the barrel is just plain stupid.

I now have something to put into the thread about the dumbest thing read in a Gun Forum.

I'm no big promoter of the .25ACP sure my back up is one. I just think that when talking about something like ballistics you should actually use facts not your own prejudice ideas. I been shooting and hand loading the .25 ACP for 20 years it's every bit the cartridge a .22LR is. HOW MANY DEER BEEN KILLED WITH A .22LR????

From Speer:

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=147

25 Cal - 25 Auto GDHP Part Number Caliber Grains/Grams Box Count Use
...................................3985........25 Cal....35 / 2.27.......100...... 4

Bullet Coefficient Sectional Density Diameter Inches Diameter mm
...........0.091..........0.079...............0.251...............6.375

Load data here:

<broken link removed>


And here is a Ballistic's table(from Guns and Ammo Magazine) that shows the 35 grain Speer JHP with a muzzle velocity of 900 FT PER SEC and a Muzzle Energy of 63 Ft lbs This with a 2" barrel. The enery at 50 yards is 51 FT lbs

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ballistics/25_auto.html

Comparing it to the .22LR which the same chart shows only in a 6" barrel

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ballistics/22_lr_stnd_vel_handgun.html

I say a .25ACP and a .22LR std velocity are pretty DAMN close in the same lenght barrel.

 

[MilesTeg]

Ummm, I believe the 4" barrel comment was a joke. No one really thinks a .25 ACP can't make it out a 4" barrel. It only runs into trouble at 4.25 inches.


.25 ACP for hunting deer or defense? Sure anything is possible but the question should be is it practicable.

 

[Woodswalker]

Not necessarily. The WDFW has rules for calibers for big game. .243 is the minimum caliber. The bullet MUST create at least 350 foot lbs of impact at 100 yards. A .25acp will NEVER create that kind of impact at 100 yards. How they measured impact is a mystery to me. So just because a .25acp is big enough caliber in diameter, it is not legal to use on big game because of the impact issue. Even with a 16" barrel.

Uhm nope, not any more...created too many arguments. Now its just caliber, bbl length.

 

[Woodswalker]

Hey Mark W

Thought i was the only one who dropped one of those in my pocket while getting dressed....

Woodswalker

 

[spengo]

Lol @ everyone who thought this thread was srs bzns.

 

[raftman]

Hey Raftman WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

I commented on your comment that quoted this post:



Your post is as follows:



Which to me sure looked like you were commenting on the velocity of the .25ACP round NOT the Muzzle energy unless in your world f#s (as used by the post you were quoting in your post that I then commented on) would be a short hand for muzzle energy

I am very very clear on what I said are you?

You're trying way too dang hard and aren't clear on anything you're talking about. I am still correct, like I was from the beginning. Can you tell me what this symbol is called: "#"? I'll give you a hint, it's a 5 letter word that starts with a "p" and ends with an "ound." Look it up if you have to.

Therefore when someone says "300f#s at the muzzle." They are saying 300 foot pounds at the muzzle, not 300 feet per second. My assertion therefore stands, it would take nothing short of a miracle for a round of 25acp load to be carrying 300 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle regardless of barrel length.

 

[Mark W.]

Well my bust I have never seen that abreviation used anywhere. So I guess I'm the one who should say I'm sorry.

 

[mjbskwim]

Man I didn't realize someone was confused about the # sign for pounds.
Sorry to enlighten the thread.

22 lr has take many deer up here in my neighborhood.No I haven't but plenty of guys out here did while kids.

From <broken link removed>


BULLET BARREL
LENGTH VELOCITY (fps) ENERGY 30 yd.
MIDRANGE
CARTRIDGE WT. TYPE MFG (INCHES) MUZZ. 50 YDS. MUZZ. 50 YDS. TRAIL
.25 Auto 35 Safety (CB) 2 1150 976 103 74 0.7
35 JHP (S) 2 900 813 63 51 1.5
45 JHP (W) 2 815 729 66 53 1.8
50 FMJ (S) 2 760 730 65 60 1.9
50 FMJ (S) 2 760 707 64 56 2.4

So muzzle energy is 103 f#s (that's one hundred three foot pounds = ouch! )

And 74 at 50 yards.I would guess a sling shot has equivalent at 50 yards ( depending on the size of projectile you use)

<broken link removed>

Top half


BULLET VELOCITY (fps) ENERGY (ft-lbs) MIDRANGE
TRAJECTORY
CARTRIDGE MFG. (GR.) TYPE MUZZLE 100 YDS. MUZZLE 100 YDS. (IMPACT AT 100YDS)
.22 LONG RIFLE - HIGH VELOCITY & HYPER VELOCITY .22 LR Hyper Vel. (Ag) 30 HP 1750 1191 533 363 1.4
.22 LR Hyper Vel. (Ag) 30 S 1750 1191 533 363 1.4
.22 LR Copper Plated (F) 31 HP 1550 1100 165 85 1.9
.22 LR Stinger (C) 32 HP 1640 1132 191 91 1.9

533 at the muzzle and 363 at 100 yds(yards)
That's like 3 times as much as a 25auto at the muzzle

 

[orygun]

When we're talking about shooting deer with a .22, wouldn't you be led to believe that the majority (if not all) of those taken were shot with a rifle?
The ballistics of the .22 Long Rifle cartridge are much better in a rifle length barrel than a handgun length barrel.

I've yet to see a .25 ACP rifle of any kind.


If I were close (+- 30 yards or so) and the deer not moving, I'm sure I could make a clean kill with my .22 rifle with one shot. At that distance I can punch a hole in a dime. I'd have to be about 3 feet away to feel comfortable using a .25 handgun on a deer. The one I had wouldn't hit a pop can at a few yards. But, for self defense I'd rather have a gun like than than nothing.

Looks like I already posted quite a while back. At least I'm consistent!

 

[Mark W.]

Man I didn't realize someone was confused about the # sign for pounds.
Sorry to enlighten the thread.

22 lr has take many deer up here in my neighborhood.No I haven't but plenty of guys out here did while kids.

From <broken link removed>


BULLET BARREL
LENGTH VELOCITY (fps) ENERGY 30 yd.
MIDRANGE
CARTRIDGE WT. TYPE MFG (INCHES) MUZZ. 50 YDS. MUZZ. 50 YDS. TRAIL
.25 Auto 35 Safety (CB) 2 1150 976 103 74 0.7
35 JHP (S) 2 900 813 63 51 1.5
45 JHP (W) 2 815 729 66 53 1.8
50 FMJ (S) 2 760 730 65 60 1.9
50 FMJ (S) 2 760 707 64 56 2.4

So muzzle energy is 103 f#s (that's one hundred three foot pounds = ouch! )

And 74 at 50 yards.I would guess a sling shot has equivalent at 50 yards ( depending on the size of projectile you use)

<broken link removed>

Top half


BULLET VELOCITY (fps) ENERGY (ft-lbs) MIDRANGE
TRAJECTORY
CARTRIDGE MFG. (GR.) TYPE MUZZLE 100 YDS. MUZZLE 100 YDS. (IMPACT AT 100YDS)
.22 LONG RIFLE - HIGH VELOCITY & HYPER VELOCITY .22 LR Hyper Vel. (Ag) 30 HP 1750 1191 533 363 1.4
.22 LR Hyper Vel. (Ag) 30 S 1750 1191 533 363 1.4
.22 LR Copper Plated (F) 31 HP 1550 1100 165 85 1.9
.22 LR Stinger (C) 32 HP 1640 1132 191 91 1.9

533 at the muzzle and 363 at 100 yds(yards)
That's like 3 times as much as a 25auto at the muzzle

Your not quoting ballistic's for a 2" barrel there like my numbers are. your talking rifle barrel ballistic's Unless you think a .22LR can move that fast coming out of a 2" barrel.

In a rifle lenght barrel as shown in this test the speeds come in more like 1000fps

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/25auto.html

energy of said round

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/25auto.html


And to note in a 2" barrel a .44spl is slower then the lowly .25auto (816fps) at 713fps (YES I KNOW ONE IS 45grs the other 200 gr and what that does the energy.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44special.html


I'm not saying you can take a deer with a firearm chambered for .25ACP What I'm saying it the cartridge is no where near as bad as people here have made it out to be.

If you chambered a 16" barrel rifle for .25ACP it would have as much chance of taking a deer as any normal velocity .22LR and back when people regularly took deer with .22LR you didn't have any 1600fps 22's. you had .22LR that were doing 1200-1300fps at best.

The last thing I'll beat this dead horse with is that before making snide comments about the .25ACP a person should at least look at the FACTS.

 

[coosbaycreep]

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/fo...k-gun-shootout-crappy-caliber-comparison.html

I think .25acp would do just as good as .22lr from the same length of barrel.

I also don't know anyone (other than poachers) who "hunts" deer with anything smaller than a .223 rifle, or a .357mag handgun, but I'm sure it can be and has been done. I once talked to an old dude who supposedly use to "hunt" (poach) deer with a .22short from a rifle. He said he would shoot them and wait for them to bleed to death. Pretty sick if you ask me.

I know another dude who was shot in the back with a .25acp in the '80s and almost died after spending two or three days in the hospital. It's actually a shame he didn't die, because he's a scumbag pedophile who usually goes to jail at least once a year for various parole violations.

 

[MA Duce]

"I also don't know anyone (other than poachers) who "hunts" deer with anything other than a .223 rifle, or a .357mag handgun,"........Really? I don't know ANYONE who hunts deer with a .357 pistol...or a .223.

 

[A.I.P.]

I had a 25 ACP in a 24" varmint profile M-700 W/ Leopold 4-24X 1/4 MOA target-dot scope

 

[mjbskwim]

YES,yes it is as bad as everyone but YOU make it sound.
If you are a hooker and need your "John " to get off,this is the gun.
If you are at the cash machine and a crack head comes at you?
You are bubblegumed.(That bubblegum is replacing the word describing fornication.A 4 letter word? Meaning screwed?)

You are more likely to piss a Nigerian off,than hurt him if he has a hit of goodies in him.

Did you know that about 95% of crimes are committed because of drugs or alcohol?I don't have a percentage of how many of the assailants are on drugs,just that drugs are definitely in the picture.

What does that have to do with big game?
Adrenaline.

Your not quoting ballistic's for a 2" barrel there like my numbers are. your talking rifle barrel ballistic's Unless you think a .22LR can move that fast coming out of a 2" barrel.

In a rifle lenght barrel as shown in this test the speeds come in more like 1000fps

BBTI - 25 Auto

energy of said round

Ballistics by the inch


And to note in a 2" barrel a .44spl is slower then the lowly .25auto (816fps) at 713fps (YES I KNOW ONE IS 45grs the other 200 gr and what that does the energy.

BBTI - 44 Special


I'm not saying you can take a deer with a firearm chambered for .25ACP What I'm saying it the cartridge is no where near as bad as people here have made it out to be.

If you chambered a 16" barrel rifle for .25ACP it would have as much chance of taking a deer as any normal velocity .22LR and back when people regularly took deer with .22LR you didn't have any 1600fps 22's. you had .22LR that were doing 1200-1300fps at best.

The last thing I'll beat this dead horse with is that before making snide comments about the .25ACP a person should at least look at the FACTS.

 

[coosbaycreep]

"I also don't know anyone (other than poachers) who "hunts" deer with anything other than a .223 rifle, or a .357mag handgun,"........Really? I don't know ANYONE who hunts deer with a .357 pistol...or a .223.

I didn't proof read after I finished typing that. It should of said "smaller than" instead of "other than", but most of them use a .270 or something bigger, and the dude that hunts with a .223 has wounded lots of deer and shouldn't be hunting anyway.

 

[spengo]

i bet i could get a buck with a raven.

pop pop pop
watchin mothabubblegumas drop

 

[boxer13]

Thanks all for the laughs.

 

[best defense]

Some people will stoop to anything.

A few years ago I was hunting elk in the coast range when I stumbled across a young man who was hunting elk with a 30 carbine. I mentioned that elk tend to be real tough animals to kill and that most people would use a somewhat more powerful cartridge. His reply was,"It's legal isn't it?"
Just because it is legal does not mean that it is a good idea.

By the way, I am sure that the person who started this thread is just sitting back and laughing at all of the comments. He/she could not have been serious.