.22 caliber for self-defense?

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

I bought my first rifle today (Sig 522) because of a great deal I found. It's also the first firearm for me in .22 caliber. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep it though because it doesn't come with sights and I wasn't expecting sights to be so expensive (Can I get decent sights for less than $200)?

Anyway, since I'm unfamiliar with the round (except for it being ridiculously cheap), I did some research online. I came across this:

<broken link removed>

28 LEOs slain from 1993-2002 by .22 cal and 9 were wearing body armor! I'm guessing these were head shots?! I have a different opinion of this caliber now. I thought it was only useful for plinking. How effective would a Sig 522 be for home defense? I'm guessing it would LOOK intimidating, but would you pick it over a pocket 9 or 380? Or would the intruder just feel like he's getting stung by a big swarm of bees?

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[Gunner3456]

I would love to have one of those rifles and have been considering it, but I wouldn't choose it for home defense. If it were the only gun I owned, then I guess I'd have no choice. 30+1 rounds in semi-automatic could give someone a very bad day, but it might not stop the perp quickly enough to keep him from harming you. Having to depend on a head shot in a home defense situation just isn't reasonable. I'd still aim for what's called "center mass" (basically the chest/torso) and just keep pulling the trigger.

About sights, welcome to the wonderful world of guns. It isn't unheard of for someone to have more money invested in optics than in the gun itself. I wouldn't do that with a .22, but I'd be looking at spending $200 at a minimum for optics to put on that rail. Others here will have lots of opinions, but I love shotgun scopes on military style rifles. They are fairly small, very tough, give good eye relief and are available in relatively low powers which works well for .22lr.

For home defense, you might check Bi-Mart for a Remington Express 12 gauge pump style shotgun. They have them in either 18 or 18 1/2 inch barrel (I forget) and with 00 buckshot, designed to kill deer obviously, you can do some very serious damage. Each shell will contain about 12 approximately 9mm lead pellets, any one of which could kill. On sale, you should be able to buy one with a few boxes of buckshot ammo for around $300.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Thanks Gunner! I've been looking at Samson sights, which seem to be well-made according to online reviews. I have 9mm pistols that I currently use for home defense, but never thought of using a .22 rifle until I came across other online forums.

Anyone know of a place in town (Portland Metro) that carries Samson sights? I checked out their website, but they don't show any dealers in Oregon.

 

[Gunner3456]

Thanks Gunner! I've been looking at Samson sights, which seem to be well-made according to online reviews. I have 9mm pistols that I currently use for home defense, but never thought of using a .22 rifle until I came across other online forums. This one in particular:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=680950

Anyone know of a place in town (Portland Metro) that carries Samson sights? I checked out their website, but they don't show any dealers in Oregon.

Well personally, I think those guys are flat out nuts.

The first guy says "The 10/22 is capable of firing 17 rounds a second without jamming. Take two of these guns and mount them into the .22 Gatling gun configuration, and you have a gun capable of firing almost 35 rounds a second."

He's crazy and no one corrects him. Can anyone pull a trigger 17 times per second? Next, the 10/22 is probably the worst .22lr on the market for jamming. If I had enough of those guns I could make one good boat anchor.

The 10/22 is also the least accurate of any 22lr I've ever fired. If I had enough of those rifles, I could actually make two boat anchors.

OK, here come the 10/22 lovers to flame me.

Next, there's what's loosely called "stopping power." A .22 will kill, but it doesn't impart much initial shock. Hey, a BG (bad guy) may just keep coming even if hit multiple times with a powerful handgun if he's high on drugs. I want something which will impart enough shock to stop him and that means something like a 12 gauge shotgun or a powerful handgun.

You refer to the FBI. Have you ever heard of the infamous "FBI Miami Firefight" where in 1986, FBI agents, armed primarily with 9mm handguns, were killed? It was the bloodiest day in the history of the FBI. That is the reason that today we have the .40 S&W. The FBI realized that it had to have something more powerful. Link

 

[sheepman]

The 22 LR does not get the respect that it deserves. However it would not be my choice for a HD weapon. It will certainly kill with a shot to the central nervous system and has killed a lot of game up to and including deer and bear. If it is all you have use it but a shotgun or rifle (of bigger caliber) would be a better choice. I would use your 9mm as the primary HD and the 22 only as a last resort. Good luck : Bill

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I carry my 9mm Glock 19 as my out and about gun. At home I keep a Mossberg 500 loaded to the gills in the event that the Glock doesn't stop what I'm shooting at. I haven't seen very many people argue against a shotgun and walk away.

 

[jerz_subbie]

I would not rely on a .22 or any rimfire for HD. Your best best it either a 18" 12ga w/ 00 buck, a centerfire handgun (9mm or larger) w/ HP, or, my favorite, an AR loaded w/ 30rd of 75gr HP. Contrary to what many people believe, a HP 5.56/.223 will NOT over penetrate. 12ga 00 buck may over penetrate if you live in an apartment building or condo.

Check out SWFA's Sample List for discounted optics of all types (BSA to S&B)
http://www.samplelist.com/

Check out Primary Arms for inexpensive yet good quality clones w/ great warranty
http://www.primaryarms.com/category...083823833B9271B0129.qscstrfrnt02?categoryId=5

 

[phathom]

I carry my 9mm Glock 19 as my out and about gun. At home I keep a Mossberg 500 loaded to the gills in the event that the Glock doesn't stop what I'm shooting at. I haven't seen very many people argue against a shotgun and walk away.

Same here, except change out Remington 870 instead of the Mossberg 500. Honestly all things being equal, I'd clip the holster on for the 19 and check it out with the 870.
However a .22 would be great for Z-day when headshots count and that would induce a lot of head trama really quick.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

I realize it's not the best choice for home defense, just wondering how effective it would be. If it has enough power to penetrate someone's skull, I would think it would be pretty effective in penetrating center mass too.

 

[Member 5605]

My $.02

a .22 round given enough will stop somebody. Same said for a .177 pellet gun.

The problem: how many times do you really want to pull the trigger?

Go shoot some .22 hollow points into some 2 liter bottles. Compare that to a 9mm jhp or 40jhp's.

 

[Gunner3456]

It has enough power to penetrate. You can load it with something like CCI .22lr mini mags (not .22 magnums) for defense if you wish. They're a bit spendy for plinking but not for defense.

The only issue I see is shocking power. A BG on drugs or just crazy can just keep coming for a while. If he's armed, he can shoot back. If you hit him in a vital spot he'll die, but maybe not until after he also harms you or yours.

Suppose you're protecting someone else and you need to drop the guy on the spot, or suppose he has a gun he could use on you and you need to drop him...

 

[Frog]

I bought my first rifle today (Sig 522) because of a great deal I found. It's also the first firearm for me in .22 caliber. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep it though because it doesn't come with sights and I wasn't expecting sights to be so expensive (Can I get decent sights for less than $200)?

Anyway, since I'm unfamiliar with the round (except for it being ridiculously cheap), I did some research online. I came across this:

<broken link removed>

28 LEOs slain from 1993-2002 by .22 cal and 9 were wearing body armor! I'm guessing these were head shots?! I have a different opinion of this caliber now. I thought it was only useful for plinking. How effective would a Sig 522 be for home defense? I'm guessing it would LOOK intimidating, but would you pick it over a pocket 9 or 380? Or would the intruder just feel like he's getting stung by a big swarm of bees?

For what it's worth, epkptp,
I also recently bought a Sig 522. Despite it's awesome looks, which successfully disguises it, it's still a 22! It's my option that spending a great deal of money on sights for it is a waste.

I look at it this way:
1. A 'hunting' weapon should have high quality sights. After all the work and expense involved in 'finding' the prey, one doesn't want to miss because their scope somehow failed them.
2. If you plan to be in a shoot out, or become a sharp shooter, you'll likely want a high quality set of sights. They are a must for L.E. and Military, etc. Welcome to Leupold whose cheapest model will cost well over $200.00.
3. Home defense sights? A decent set of night sights, and maybe a laser for a handgun, but I agree with earlier posts that suggest a shotgun for the purpose. Expensive sights in close quarters, in low or little light, with adrenalin pumping, is likely to make little difference.

So back to the Sig 522. Compared to the 10/22, and many others in this class, it's a way better gun. It doesn't jam and looks great right out of the box! To make a 10/22 or Marlin look and (questionable??) shoot as well, you'd need to spend another 4-5 hundred $$ over the original cost. That makes the 522 a less expensive choice, even if it doesn't come with any factory sights! I believe it is assumed by Sig that everyone has a different idea about what sights will work best on this rifle. And they don't have you pay for something you are more likely than not, just going to take off and replace.

Me? I put a Millett Red Dot Sight (Bi-Mart $69.00) and a NcStar Red Dot Laser ($49.00) on mine. Both work excellent and for this guns' purpose, all I think it requires.

Frog.

 

[The Quiet Man]

Well personally, I think those guys are flat out nuts.


... Next, the 10/22 is probably the worst .22lr on the market for jamming. If I had enough of those guns I could make one good boat anchor.

The 10/22 is also the least accurate of any 22lr I've ever fired. If I had enough of those rifles, I could actually make two boat anchors.

OK, here come the 10/22 lovers to flame me.



Okay Gunner, consider yourself flamed
My experience with 10/22's differs significantly. 1) like any semi-auto, they do jam with ammo they don't like. 22 ammo quality ranges from pathetic to excellent. My 10/22's will choke on some low quality stuff with gooey soft lead bullet configurations, and run perfectly on other brands. You have to find what it likes. 2) Even if you were correct that they are so inaccurate, you are talking about close-combat accuracy in this post and I think you're statements are over the top. They aren't target guns but I have found mine to shoot as well as other semi-auto rifles out of the box.
Just couldn't let you get by with all that bashing witihout a least a squeal

 

[TCOV]

A 22 certainly wouldn't be anyones first choice for a defensive situation but one thing I see when I read the section in the American Rifleman about people who had to defend themselves in their home with any firearm is that the bad guy usually runs like a scared little girl when shooting starts or he is hit. Not every time but most of the time. Doesn't seem to matter 22 or 12ga. Home protection is different than LEO actively going to the bad guy to do battle. 22 seems to be way better than nothing and a couple times last year children actually used light caliber weapons to protect themselves and siblings when the parents were away.

 

[Gunner3456]

Okay Gunner, consider yourself flamed
My experience with 10/22's differs significantly. 1) like any semi-auto, they do jam with ammo they don't like. 22 ammo quality ranges from pathetic to excellent. My 10/22's will choke on some low quality stuff with gooey soft lead bullet configurations, and run perfectly on other brands. You have to find what it likes. 2) Even if you were correct that they are so inaccurate, you are talking about close-combat accuracy in this post and I think you're statements are over the top. They aren't target guns but I have found mine to shoot as well as other semi-auto rifles out of the box.
Just couldn't let you get by with all that bashing witihout a least a squeal

See? They are "ammo-picky" and you didn't defend accuracy.

Treat yourself to the best used Remington Nylon 66 you can find. Failing that, buy a new Marlin 60.

I've had two Nylon 66's and NEVER had a jam on any type of ammo - whatever I could find at the moment. Never once in thousands and thousands of rounds! I believe the first one had about 100k rounds through it. The one I have now is mint.

I've heard good things about the Sig 522 but no personal experience.

 

[jordanvraptor]

A .22lr would not be my first choice but it could be used effectively. I've owned two 10/22 rifles and never had a problem with either. The reason why I don't have them anymore is because my range has a one round per second rule. I got talked to a few times because I would empty the magazines so quickly one guy even thought it was full auto. No, I wasn't bump firing, and I was hitting my steel plate target. I would not want to face such a rapid rate of fire regardless of the size or velocity of said rounds. To anyone who scoffs at the idea of the .22lr think about this. Pick a spot where you would want a ten inch long phillips screwdriver jammed into your body to the hilt... Then pick about pick about ten more spots on your body for the same treatment. You could do that much damage in about two seconds with a semi auto 22lr. Remember the Reagan shooting? Even McCarthy the secret service agent went down when he was "merely" gut shot with a lowly .22 revolver. The cop and Brady were hit with central nervous system shots so they went down as expected but Reagan hit by a ricochet thought he had been hurt being thrown in the car even though he was bleeding to death internally. If a .22 is what you got, then train to use it to be effective.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

A .22lr would not be my first choice but it could be used effectively. I've owned two 10/22 rifles and never had a problem with either. The reason why I don't have them anymore is because my range has a one round per second rule. I got talked to a few times because I would empty the magazines so quickly one guy even thought it was full auto. No, I wasn't bump firing, and I was hitting my steel plate target. I would not want to face such a rapid rate of fire regardless of the size or velocity of said rounds. To anyone who scoffs at the idea of the .22lr think about this. Pick a spot where you would want a ten inch long phillips screwdriver jammed into your body to the hilt... Then pick about pick about ten more spots on your body for the same treatment. You could do that much damage in about two seconds with a semi auto 22lr.

Exactly why I started wondering if it would be good for home defense. I wouldn't want to be hit with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBjHZOxJD90

 

[The Quiet Man]

See? They are "ammo-picky" and you didn't defend accuracy.
...I've had two Nylon 66's and NEVER had a jam on any type of ammo - whatever I could find at the moment. Never once in thousands and thousands of rounds! I believe the first one had about 100k rounds through it. The one I have now is mint.

Danged!! That's a magical little rifle. I admit that my 10/22's have not fired 100,000 rounds without a hang up. Mine particularily don't care for the bulk Thunderbolts. Congrats on finding the perfect rifles I still like my 10/22's... but then I am also one of those strange lovers of Mini-14's over the AR platforms - and yes, I have tens of thousands of rounds through M16's while in the military :huh: Go figure.

 

[el gringo loco]

Thanks Gunner! I've been looking at Samson sights, which seem to be well-made according to online reviews. I have 9mm pistols that I currently use for home defense, but never thought of using a .22 rifle until I came across other online forums. This one in particular:
link to racist website removed

Anyone know of a place in town (Portland Metro) that carries Samson sights? I checked out their website, but they don't show any dealers in Oregon.

Not that it's not possible that Nazi skinheads could provide accurate information, but I personally refuse to go to white supremacist websites for info. Stormfront is a racist organization and I don't think it is appropriate to link to their site from this forum. I hope it was a google search that led you to this group and not because you have an affiliation with this group.

 

[Gunner3456]

Danged!! That's a magical little rifle. I admit that my 10/22's have not fired 100,000 rounds without a hang up. Mine particularily don't care for the bulk Thunderbolts. Congrats on finding the perfect rifles I still like my 10/22's... but then I am also one of those strange lovers of Mini-14's over the AR platforms - and yes, I have tens of thousands of rounds through M16's while in the military :huh: Go figure.

I'll bet you drive a Yugo.