12g Pepper Rounds for HD?

[Theme57]

Hello all,

I was wondering the legality of using 12g pepper rounds like ones used in the video below for home defense as a less than lethal option. I live in Kent county, WA and had recently moved from CA where HD was pretty risky due to fear the criminal just might sue you.

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[Mark W.]

They won't be dead and will for sure sue you.

 

[Camelfilter]

Dunno about the legality, sorry.

However, if there is a threat, we will end the threat. No more no less.

Sued? You run the risk of legal ramifications regardless if you injur or kill an intruder with your hands a bat or a gun.

The crux being can you show fear for life/limb/severe injury. Armed or unarmed intruder, doesn't matter.

 

[No_Regerts]

When an intruder comes into your home, its with the mindset that they may encounter you. They are already in motion and you're behind the power curve. The threat needs to be stopped. You may succeed to by scaring them away.

If you deploy less lethal, you'll actually cause them a moment of pause which keeps them in your house longer. Do you have a backup plan for when they get angry rather than scared? Or worse yet, they are too hopped up on something to become effected by your less lethal?

 

[KKG]

I WON'T Carry any non-lethal rounds of ammo and won't have them in my Guns. If I have to use a Gun it's for one purpose ONLY and that is to Stop the threat. Even that Pepper shot can Kill but I want a round that Will!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Well, Dorothy, you're not in California anymore, oh my!
Use buckshot or slugs like a normal person.

 

[CountryGent]

Totally agreed with @No_Regerts. Once inside the home all bets are off, and less-than-lethal is not an option. I see no rational reason to not apply a 00-buck response to end the encounter. And I'll add that the human garbage that break into homes in these parts are, with some exception, usually meth-heads, so lesser loads are even less viable.

 

[No_Regerts]

Another thing to think about when using less lethal is that you need to run once you use it. Don't stick around trying to affect an arrest. The police use it to stop non lethal threats and gain compliance to arrest. For non LE, just run.

Be sure of your interpretation of a threat on the street. Once you whip out one thing, other could conceivably articulate why they brought out something even worse. Someone pulls out a can of whatever or a taser, they better hope they got the drop on m and it works. If it dont, they'll likely have two in the dome.

 

[Theme57]

I agree with the statement of using lethal force when someone breaks into the home.

 

[DirectDrive]

Birdshot is pretty nasty at around 10'
Punches a big hole almost like a slug.
Won't penetrate multiple walls.
Most would rather use a SD load of one type or another, though.

 

[Tony617]

Hello all,

I was wondering the legality of using 12g pepper rounds like ones used in the video below for home defense as a less than lethal option. I live in Kent county, WA and had recently moved from CA where HD was pretty risky due to fear the criminal just might sue you.

This is the self defense law that I was thinking about:

RCW 9A.16.110: Defending against violent crime—Reimbursement.

Don't use pepper rounds since that defendant will survive and most likely will sue you. I would use the minimum of #1 buckshot but there are low recoil 00 buckshot rounds that you can use for a pump shotgun. LE132 which is 9 pellet 00 buckshot or there is the LE132 15 pellet #1 buckshot. There is also an 8 pellet 00 buckshot which is LE133. Always shoot to kill or until the threat has ended.

 

[Kruel J]

Um, no.

 

[cigars]

I would say use some flavor of bird or buck shot first, repeat. Then if they aren't feeling enough pain, definitely use the pepper round.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

...for home defense as a less than lethal option.

ANY discharge of a firearm is considered to be a lethal response no matter what ammo you have loaded.

 

[Argonaut]

Birdshot is pretty nasty at around 10'
Punches a big hole almost like a slug.
Won't penetrate multiple walls.
Most would rather use a SD load of one type or another, though.

View attachment 417854

I have argued that with people so often I get tired of it. At self defense range........across a room.....bird shot hasn't even left the shot cup yet. It won't penetrate like buck shot or a slug but it is plenty lethal. True self defense is close, otherwise, you can get away if needed. Most houses are less than 50 feet at there longest point....and rooms are like 20. Not a lot of need for a weapon designed for a firefight at 100 yards. Even if a shooting judged legal doesn't protect you from civil liability and some civil prosecutor asking if it was really nessisary to kill an intruder. Buy shooting at a long range where it was questionable if you did your due diligence in protecting lives without taking one.

 

[Medic!]

Don't mistake a condiment, for a shotgun load.

 

[CountryGent]

Don't mistake a condiment, for a shotgun load.

Words of wisdom.

 

[albin25]

Really not so sure these would be of much use inside a home because they'd probably have a pepper-spray effect on everyone in an room, but hey... if the bad guy is downwind, and outside, and agrees not to hold his breath, or not to move, or to not stand too far away..... notice, these guys made a point of staying upwind, and outside.
I don't like these type of products not just because they are in-effective and may get some poor sap killed, but because they feed the anti's view that you should just shoot the gun out of his hand, fire warning shots, or just "wing" the bad guy(s).
(remember the ball you could shoot from your pistol?)




Of course if you think you'd maybe like to try pre-seasoning or flavor injecting your small game
(Are these available in "smoky teriyaki" or "sweet Cajun"?)
or,
if you think you'd prefer your home-invaders pissed off (and a little spicy)?

 

[Freakshow]

As said above.

You are in a confined space, and you have now blinded yourself, with a attacker who might have real bullets.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

For defense of my life...I'll stick with a older proven traditional loading...rather than a new gimmicky load.
If I have to shoot...its 'cause I'm out of all other options...so I going to want a loading that that can stop the threat then and there...
Andy