WTH Happened Here?? Brown fuzzy lint in gun powder storage box

[CLT65]

That's like nothing I've ever seen before. It will be interesting to see what Hodgdon has to say. Did you send them photos? It might be worth sending photos to the container manufacturer also, see if they have any comment. Something strange happened that I'm sure both of those manufacturers would want to be aware of.

We need a chemist, clearly this is some kind of chemistry taking place.

Undoubtedly so. It's bizarre that the lids disintegrated, but the powder is intact. You might want to hang onto the powder until you hear back from Hodgdon, in case they want to inspect it somehow. That's unlikely because you can't really ship it to them, just an idea.

 

[Member 34319]

San Jose CA is 45 ft above sea level, where I lived was maybe 200 ft Altitude where I am now is 275ft
The only altitude I faced on the move up here was a 4000+ ft pass on I-5

I visit Reno regularly. It's at 4500 feet. When we drive or fly, everything liquid goes into secondary bags. We are at 250' in Oregon.

The difference in pressure here vs there is enough to pop open most things.

We have lived in Oregon long enough now, that visiting Reno for longer than a week gives us elevation sickness.

 

[nammac]

Very interesting situation, never seen that happen before. If you happen to have mfg dates and/or lot numbers, I'd go back to Hodgdon and ask them wtf.... Perhaps others have had issues and reported them back to the manufacturer...

Glad I use Alliant and Winchester powders, never experienced any issue with long term storage. Always stored in cool dry conditions.

 

[DizzyJ]

I use a LOT of hodgedon, but have never seen something like this at least in that short amount of time.

 

[JuglansRegia]

I don't know what happened but you should get some kind of award for not burning your house down.

 

[DizzyJ]

Question for you:
Were all of the lids that disintegrated made of metal? That might have something to do with why the hodgedon containers were affected but not the others.

Maybe the nitrocellulose reacting with the metal lids?

 

[edzz]

Alchemy ...

 

[kisfish]

That sucks.

 

[deadeye]

First question is what does the underside of the lid look like? The heat in the garage most likely transferred to the bottles causing gasses to build in the containers until the seals popped and released it. The gasses collected on the steel lids and ate them along with the top edge inside the rubber seal on the lid of the box. This would be similar to putting a car battery in the box and charging it or as in this case getting hot, gasses full of acidic properties eating away at metal surfaces.

The plastic bottles didn't get affected nor did the plastic lids as well as most of the painted/protected areas of the box or at least until the acid got under the paint hence the peeling exposing more bare metal to eat. This is why it is important to read and follow the "store in a cool dry place" handling warning on the bottles. There is also a reason why older powder not stored properly will end up smelling like turpentine and shouldn't be used if it does. It will burn with a match but not as it should so use the remaining at your own risk but smell it first.

EDIT: from wiki....
Instability and stabilization[edit]
Nitrocellulose deteriorates with time, yielding acidic byproducts. Those byproducts catalyze the further deterioration, increasing its rate. The released heat, in case of bulk storage of the powder, or too large blocks of solid propellant, can cause self-ignition of the material. Single-base nitrocellulose propellants are hygroscopic and most susceptible to degradation; double-base and triple-base propellants tend to deteriorate more slowly. To neutralize the decomposition products, which could otherwise cause corrosion of metals of the cartridges and gun barrels, calcium carbonate is added to some formulations.

To prevent buildup of the deterioration products, stabilizers are added. Diphenylamine is one of the most common stabilizers used. Nitrated analogs of diphenylamine formed in the process of stabilizing decomposing powder are sometimes used as stabilizers themselves.[3]:28[7]:310 The stabilizers are added in the amount of 0.5–2% of the total amount of the formulation; higher amounts tend to degrade its ballistic properties. The amount of the stabilizer is depleted with time. Propellants in storage should be periodically tested for the amount of stabilizer remaining, as its depletion may lead to auto-ignition of the propellant.

 

[Stomper]

Alchemy ...

I was thinking sorcery or witchcraft!!

 

[JRuby]

Because that's a lot of chemical crap to dump down a sewer or storm drain.
I've been led to believe the fire departments uses this stuff for training purposes
It is not an illegal amount, if there are any ordinances about that here.

You couid also just dump it in your garden and use it as fertilizer. Once it gets wet it is no longer active. I have personally got rid of old powder like this

 

[titsonritz]

Look like the beginning of a bonfire.

 

[FourTeeFive]

I'd look for something else leaking chemical fumes into the air. Which in and of itself is alarming. Obviously the powder company chooses packaging materials that don't react with the contents. So something else must be triggering this chemical reaction.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Interesting situation!
My first thoughts are the Can lids, maybe Galvanic Reaction with other contents of the storage container it's self! Aluminum doesn't do well around other alloys and certain plastics and composites, so a reaction could have happened here!

 

[po18guy]

Perhaps re-contact Hodgdon and provide lot numbers for the powder. For the lids to be off and not simply degraded in place, it appears that a form of combustion might have taken place, but the limited oxygen caused it to self-extinguish almost as quickly as it started(?) Degraded powder will have a brown, dusty appearance, maybe droplets of liquid, and an acidy odor.

EDIT: Keyboard has letters in the wrong places.

 

[Legs]

You haven't set a car battery on top of the box, have you?

 

[Viper2B]

My father once stored some leftover rifle powder in a mason jar; sealed with a standard mason jar lid and ring. Stuck it in a wooded cupboard in the garage. Everything was fine for several years but one day when I went to get an electric tool from that cupboard, all of its metal surfaces were covered with a fine coating of what appeared to be rust. Further examination revealed that the lid on the jar of powder was almost entirely gone and the ring heavily corroded. Nothing else in the cupboard as a source for the corrosion and several other metal items had the same rust-like coating. The powder looked fine but we figured something (chemically) had happened so we disposed of it. Note that several other cans of powder in their original containers and in a different cupboard were fine. Always wondered if there was something about the coating or the seal on the mason jar lid that caused the problem.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I was told by older reloaders that your powder and primer should be stored in wooden boxes or cabinets, that's where mine reside.

 

[bbbass]

Looks like a classic case of deteriorating powder to me. Why one brand and not the other? Either formulation or diff in lids.

It happens:

 

[Medic!]

I was thinking sorcery or witchcraft!!

Trump most likely.
Possibly Bush?