Would like help in bench shooting

[1371JarHead]

Hey fellow shooters, So I have now gone to my local rifle range here in Seattle 6 times ( 100 yard outdoor),( ill soon be joining a 200 yard range) and well I cant seem to hit crap. I have never fired off a bench set up before, I did serve in the Marines way back in the 70s and was a pretty good shot with M16 A1 and the 45 ACP and I was a master with my M 60, I was a pretty good hunter as a boy and in my later 20`s after I got out of the Corps, that was always with my Dad, I shot my .243 win rifle and my Dads 7mm Rem mag, and a .44 mag rifle, most always in prone, sometimes using sticks or off hand. Now that im retired I want to get into hunting again ( I have a deer hunt coming up on my friends farm in Missouri in nov, as well as a hog hunt, and next year im planning on a guided hunt for elk in New Mexico. So I bought a very nice(used) Remington .243 model 700 bdl with a 26 inch heavy duty barrel/Simmons scope bi-pod ( I removed the bi-pod for now), for my deer hunt. I also bought( used) a really sweet Ruger NO 1 in .300 win mag/ with a vortex scope/the trigger is amazing. So my problem is I just cant seem to get in a proper position on the bench i feel out of position,( on a back note I did just have a total knee replacement on my right knee) and im still in a bit of pain and still have issues bending it in certain directions. I have watched about 200 youtube vids on bench shooting but to no avail. I bought my own gun rest and made my own sand bags added more bb`s took out some bb`s SHOT OFF MY CARRY BAG ( LIKE IN HUNTING), So help would be much appreciated for sure. Also the new gun club does allow prone/seated and kneeling shooting, so perhaps that might work out better for me. ok carry on thanking all in advance..Robert

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[Kruel J]

Could you describe in what ways you feel out of position? What kind of shooting rest/bench are you using? Have you adjusted your optics for proper eye relief? Lots of questions here......

 

[1371JarHead]

Could you describe in what ways you feel out of position? What kind of shooting rest/bench are you using? Have you adjusted your optics for proper eye relief? Lots of questions here......

Thanks for your response, i had to look up eye relief, but yes I think i am doing it right, I adjusted the Simmons scope both wind-age and elevation, the vortex seems ok, the shooting bench is a built in made of concrete and metal with a wood rest and sandbags, i bought a caldwell adjustable rifle shooting rest. So I feel that the rifle and me are not inline with where i need to point the rifle down range at the targets, i feel like im having to muscle the rifle to get on target, the RSO said that to him im torquing the rifle with my thumb on my right hand, thus im pushing everything down to the left, ill post a photo, in case im not explaining myself. The photo of the target is using the .243 at 100 yards using Federal Non-Typical 100 gr. the groupings are not to bad as you can see very low to the left, i adjusted the scope but still not hitting bullseye.

 

[Kruel J]

Hmmm. Typical bench shooting does not require a support hand on the forearm. I tuck my support arm close to my body. You also shouldn't be having to "muscle" the rifle in to place.

@No_Regerts @Goosebrown

 

[66PonyCar]

What about letting someone else shoot the rifles to confirm it's you and not the scopes or rifles?

 

[Kruel J]

What about letting someone else shoot the rifles to confirm it's you and not the scopes or rifles?

Good call.

 

[DirectDrive]

Hmmm. Typical bench shooting does not require a support hand on the forearm. I tuck my support arm close to my body. You also shouldn't be having to "muscle" the rifle in to place.

@No_Regerts @Goosebrown

This guy looks extremely comfortable.
OP, you look like you're perched on a pointy rock.


For shootong with crosshairs, I would get rid of those giant black bullseye targets.
Get some Redfield type targets for shooting with crosshairs....the best.

 

[turq]

Get a rear bag!
Slide rifle forward and back. The cross hairs should stay verticle "in line".
Use gold bond powder. Hold forearm down follow thru, minimum body influence.
Control breathing and zen be surprised when it goes off.

 

[Kruel J]

Get a rear bag!
Slide rifle forward and back. The cross hairs should stay verticle "in line".
Use gold bond powder. Hold forearm down follow thru, minimum body influence.
Control breathing and zen be surprised when it goes off.

I use gold bond powder in the summer months, keeps me from walking around feeling like I have a piece of chewed bubblegum stuck to my thigh.

 

[DirectDrive]

I use lotion, but not too heavy.

 

[Spitpatch]

The overriding rule in positioning for bench shooting is exactly the same as any other position: GET COMFORTABLE! Yes, there are recommended guidelines, and unfortunately too many people consider these as unbendable diktats. Humans are each different and we are bendable. Positioning "rules" are bendable too. My competition coaches would tear their hair out trying to get me to "conform" to a picture in a book. I would always try their suggestion and if it improved my scores, I would adopt it. If not, I would gravitate quickly to what felt best and produced best results.

Firstly, get that front bag off the tip of the forearm (and away from that front swivel stud). A starting guideline for a hunting rifle is to position the bag right under the middle of the checkering on that forearm. (right where your palm naturally gravitates when shooting with no rest).

Heavier guns do well with no contact from the left hand (assuming right handed shooter), or as one pic (the comfortable guy) here shows, the left hand cradling back to the buttstock. Light guns (most sporters) almost always prefer some help from that left hand on the stock behind the front bag, pulling it down with consistent (not hard) pressure into the bag.

The "comfortable guy" here also differs from your technique in that his gun is as low and close to the bench as he can be comfortable with. Your gun (and you) are enjoying a degree of height measurable by an altimeter. The bench is your connection to the earth. Get down there with it (but COMFORTABLY!). You will note that Comfy Guy is also resting his BODY against the bench, becoming part of it.

Finally, NEVER hunt with a gun merely sighted on a bench. The hunting rifle should be shot repeatedly from hunting positions and the sights adjusted accordingly (sometimes amazingly departed from the setting achieved on the bench). We don't shoot deer from a bench. (Well, wait a minute: lots of guys on TV shows do.) The bench tests the gun only. It does not test the results when you are married to the gun in the field.

SO: Arrive at the bench with the prime directive to set yourself up COMFORTABLY. Only then the secondary consideration of directing the rifle toward the target can be initiated. When correct, if you let go completely of the gun, the sights will remain centered on the bull (or square as I prefer for scopes). Good shooting my friend, and never quit asking for help. Too many think they have the whole darned thing figured out.

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

Thanks for your response, i had to look up eye relief, but yes I think i am doing it right, I adjusted the Simmons scope both wind-age and elevation, the vortex seems ok, the shooting bench is a built in made of concrete and metal with a wood rest and sandbags, i bought a caldwell adjustable rifle shooting rest. So I feel that the rifle and me are not inline with where i need to point the rifle down range at the targets, i feel like im having to muscle the rifle to get on target, the RSO said that to him im torquing the rifle with my thumb on my right hand, thus im pushing everything down to the left, ill post a photo, in case im not explaining myself. The photo of the target is using the .243 at 100 yards using Federal Non-Typical 100 gr. the groupings are not to bad as you can see very low to the left, i adjusted the scope but still not hitting bullseye.

View attachment 571326 View attachment 571327 View attachment 571328

Are you trying to move the point of impact (POI) from where the bullets are impacting to the center of the scope? Or are you trying to make your groups smaller, or both. Work on one at a time. If you are going to hunt, you probably want POI to be a couple of inches high at 100 yards. Let's say 2in high, that way you have some additional range before your round drops too much.

Use a target with lined inches so you know exactly how from POI is from point of aim (POA). If you are shooting 6in low and 4 in left. you adjust the scope to come up and to the right. Assume one click is a 1/4in, that would be 4 clicks per inch so 24 clicks up, 16 clicks right. However I see other problems we should address first.

Ok who is in the photo with the belted magnum on the bench? You? That isn't a .243 round and the person shooting is too far from the scope to probably see the full image. Eye relief, the distance from the scope to the eye, is important because if you are too far away the image is no longer an accurate representation. You need to push forward till the image fills the eyepiece. If the cross hairs are blurry, you can adjust the eye piece counter clockwise to improve the view of the cross hairs. You want the rifle as still as possible so you can slightly move your eye and see if the cross hairs stay put or move. If they do, you have parallax and that is another thread. Focus on filling the eyepiece with scope image.

2nd that is a lot of holes on the target, Done any cleaning lately? The more fouled your barrel, the larger your groups will be. Report back and we'll take these challenges on one step at a time. No Bad Days right?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

In the photo with the Ruger #1 the front rest is inches too high. This requires that to get on target the stock is not properly nested against your shoulder. It should be much lower, as should your head be. The scope is too far from your eye to be able to aim consistently. Eye relief should be such that the actual field of vision exactly or nearly fills the available viewing area. Your head should be much farther forward as well as being much lower. Lowering the front rest 4 or 5 inches will allow this. Your basic problem is that you cannot have a stable sight picture with the butt end of the rifle wobbling all over the place. Having the front support so high means you are in an unnatural and uncomfortable position. You'll never achieve any accuracy like that.

Notice that in the "comfortable guy" picture the butt of the rifle is maybe an inch off the table, whereas in your picture with the Ruger the butt is 6 to 8 inches off the table. There may be other factors involved here, but you'll never sort them out until you get that rifle down about 4-5" closer to the table.

 

[flashpan]

If you ever get down Portland way, bring your rifle and send me a PM. We will go to Tri-County gun club and sort it all out on the range. Its hard to fix this without smelling gunpowder.
Regards

 

[Tilos]

Thanks for your response, i had to look up eye relief, but yes I think i am doing it right, I adjusted the Simmons scope both wind-age and elevation, the vortex seems ok, the shooting bench is a built in made of concrete and metal with a wood rest and sandbags, i bought a caldwell adjustable rifle shooting rest. So I feel that the rifle and me are not inline with where i need to point the rifle down range at the targets, i feel like im having to muscle the rifle to get on target, the RSO said that to him im torquing the rifle with my thumb on my right hand, thus im pushing everything down to the left, ill post a photo, in case im not explaining myself. The photo of the target is using the .243 at 100 yards using Federal Non-Typical 100 gr. the groupings are not to bad as you can see very low to the left, i adjusted the scope but still not hitting bullseye.

View attachment 571326 View attachment 571327 View attachment 571328

From the image, you are way too high up off the bench and propped up on your elbows.
A lower seat will get your shoulder lower and allow you to rest the stock on a sand bag to take away any muscle input for "holding" the rifle in position.
The rifle should be pointed at the target while just sitting on the rest and bags without any input from you.
Search for pics of bench rest shooting to see what a good position looks like.
Here's a quick search with lots of pics and tabs to more:
images of benchrest rifle shooting position - Bing images

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

If you ever get down Portland way, bring your rifle and send me a PM. We will go to Tri-County gun club and sort it all out on the range. Its hard to fix this without smelling gunpowder.
Regards

I'm a member as well and would enjoy an opportunity to assist someone who has served. Between the two of us we're can show you basic equipment like rests and bags, as well as get your optics adjusted, and certainly have some fun. While you are in Oregon, be sure to pick up ammo and supplies and save on sales tax.

 

[1371JarHead]

Hey guys, thank you for all your advice, it was well taken, just spent 3 days at my friends farm in Yelm,and spent all day shooting from his home made bench...The Ruger NO 1 .300 win mag shoots just great I was hitting pretty small groups out to 375 yards, however the Remington 700 .243 is another matter, after having poor groups and trying everything, it now seems that the the scope rings/base is mounted fairly high, so im craning my neck( VERY POOR CHEEK WELD), and in turn pushing all the rounds down to the left, i bought 2 diff types of tourbon cheek rests, but they just didn't add enough height that i needed, so i ordered a Bradley adjustable cheek rest, and I hope that will do the trick. You guys are the best, very good help thank you again, ill post a few photos once I get the new check rest...

 

[No_Regerts]

Hey guys, thank you for all your advice, it was well taken, just spent 3 days at my friends farm in Yelm,and spent all day shooting from his home made bench...The Ruger NO 1 .300 win mag shoots just great I was hitting pretty small groups out to 375 yards, however the Remington 700 .243 is another matter, after having poor groups and trying everything, it now seems that the the scope rings/base is mounted fairly high, so im craning my neck( VERY POOR CHEEK WELD), and in turn pushing all the rounds down to the left, i bought 2 diff types of tourbon cheek rests, but they just didn't add enough height that i needed, so i ordered a Bradley adjustable cheek rest, and I hope that will do the trick. You guys are the best, very good help thank you again, ill post a few photos once I get the new check rest...

If you come down that way again, send me a PM. Got a few M700 based/rings you could try and we could go to Fort Lewis to shoot it. Great benches there.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Hey guys, thank you for all your advice, it was well taken, just spent 3 days at my friends farm in Yelm,and spent all day shooting from his home made bench...The Ruger NO 1 .300 win mag shoots just great I was hitting pretty small groups out to 375 yards, however the Remington 700 .243 is another matter, after having poor groups and trying everything, it now seems that the the scope rings/base is mounted fairly high, so im craning my neck( VERY POOR CHEEK WELD), and in turn pushing all the rounds down to the left, i bought 2 diff types of tourbon cheek rests, but they just didn't add enough height that i needed, so i ordered a Bradley adjustable cheek rest, and I hope that will do the trick. You guys are the best, very good help thank you again, ill post a few photos once I get the new check rest...

I thought the scope was mounted a bit high on the .243 but couldn't tell for sure from the picture. Consider lowering the scope using lower mounts. The closer the axis of the scope is to the axis of the bore the better accuracy you will have, and it will give you a good cheek weld.

This is my Bushmaster AR when I bought it. The scope was WAY too high and I was not very accurate with it.


Here it is now with a higher quality Vortex scope that is mounted much lower. It's quite a bit more accurate.


BTW, the Simmons scope is probably adequate for your needs, but it is an economy model/brand, so at some point you might consider a new scope if accuracy issues continue. I'd suggest Vortex or Leupold as generally being good values for the money.

 

[1371JarHead]

If you ever get down Portland way, bring your rifle and send me a PM. We will go to Tri-County gun club and sort it all out on the range. Its hard to fix this without smelling gunpowder.
Regards

I will hit you up on that for sure, I love Oregon, we used to live there way back in the late 60`s I think the place was called Amity, great hunting and my Dad and i would go clamming and crabbing all the time