Why Do You Need An AR-15/AK-47/Military Style Rifle etc?

[Vorpalis]

...are all big government folks and don't have a distrust of government ...yet.

Re-phrase it in terms they might understand better: gun control creates a monopoly on the use of force, and how often does a monopoly work out well for the little guy?

 

[Diamondback]

If all *I* need is a flintlock musket for "arms", all YOU need is a lead-type printing press for "speech."

 

[Vorpalis]

To the OP's question, I wouldn't attempt to answer it directly, because doing so would validate the false assumption that the question is predicated on: that by you owning such a gun, others will suffer violence. You could point out that you were not the person who committed any of these atrocities and will never choose to do so. Since the assumption is false, the question isn't a valid one.

Of course, as others have pointed out, the question isn't in earnest and doesn't come from actual knowledge. The question isn't even really words meant to convey meaning, it's just a noise they've heard associated with a feeling they share, and the feeling compels them to repeat the noise. You aren't going to turn that into a productive conversation. Remember the quote,

"You cannot reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."

 

[Ura-Ki]

I always hear the absolutes, and no one should be dealing in absolutes, no one!
When ever I hear 'No body needs" or so one should HAVE" that is an absolute! " No one should HAVE weapons of war" when you are dealing in absolutes, you imply a threat, weather you mean to or not, and by doing so, you become a threat! Your actions are driven my emotion and your mind is shut down to any discussion or reason, and by the glass of nature, you are now a threat! We see it being taken to that level when folks say " yes, we are going to take your guns" and further more, they escalate by saying they dont care if you die when they come. Dealing in absolutes is a sure way to end up in a fight, and they will be at the bottom of the food chain!

 

[808hondacrguy]

Why do I need one? The question is why DON'T you need one.

 

[Levetti]

I need an AR and an AK for mental health reasons. My meditation is a few hours of being slapped in the face by my NPAP as I punch paper, then easing into the pillow soft recoil of my AR before calling it a day. How dare anyone try to mess with my mental health!

 

[USMC-03]

Never give up the high ground or the language.

I always place the burden back on them and ask, "Please explain to me why it's any business of yours or anyone else's what I own." The trick is keeping them on point and separating fact from opinions. But if done right, watching the mental backflips can be rather entertaining.

 

[Diamondback]

Why does my firearm frighten you so? What are you planning to do to me or mine that you think would give me reason to use it?

 

[Diamondback]

Better yet, why do YOU need your personal legion of SS Stormtroopers like Adolf and Heinrich *gesturing at suits* over there?

 

[Voidshot9]

I get the responses about not having to explain why. I'm looking for rhetoric for use with the undecided and slightly left of center to see if I can sway their vote. They don't get the subject vs citizen argument and will simply tune you out. Likewise telling someone it's none of their business or to simply FO will motivate someone who might have been too lazy to vote to make sure they vote for the initiative.

I'm in the same boat as you. I do have some friends that are slightly left of center and who I believe are not completely closed minded. I don't like getting all defensive and exclaiming things like "'Because it is my right! FU!". Things like that can tend to just further justify their own prejudices. But like some others have pointed out in this very thread, there's an arrogant presumption in the question of "why does anyone need an AR-15?".

I wrote about this in another thread but I'll reiterate it here: Ownership of property in America is not based on need. That would be the communist model, wouldn't it? "To each according to his need", etc... I don't need 10 pairs of shoes, or a refrigerator the size of a closet, or a sports car, or a big screen TV. But I have them, and I didn't have to get permission from anyone. We live in a society where I don't have to justify what I buy to anyone else. And an AR-15 or an AK-47 is just property, just like the rest of this stuff.

The people asking the "why do you need an AR-15?" question don't even understand why people WANT to have them. It's for the same reason the police and military want them!
* They're accurate.
* They're reliable.
* They're easy to maintain.
* They're reasonably priced.
* They're easy to get parts for.
* They're easy to customize.
* Their parts are interchangeable.
* You can clean it easily.
* You can fix it easily.
* if it jams, it's easy to un-jam.

There's many rifles out there that don't fit all of those categories, so the real question is, why would I NOT want one of them?

But more importantly, they're a force multiplier that, in a self defense situation, could make the difference between your life or death.

Why do police use AR15s ?
Because they were getting outgunned by bad guys.

Why do I have an AR15 ?
Because I don't want to be outgunned by bad guys.

This point, exactly!

However, I just can't get past the premise of the question they ask and that it is indicative of how conditioned people have become. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" means I decide what are and are not my needs. As long as said pursuit is not causing harm to another citizen, it is nobody's business but my own. And one can check out the history of societies in which the government decided what their citizens "needed" and see how well that worked out.

CountryGent, you are making the point better than I can for sure. The very premise of their question is offensive. And it is sometimes very tough to suppress my rage and try to actually respond in a reasonable fashion in order to have a useful discourse..

 

[history]

Some people like a Volkswagen, some people like a Ferrari.

They are both legal and will get you to where your going.

We are not criminals, so don't tell us what we can choose to defend ourselves with.

 

[Geardo]

To the OP's question, I wouldn't attempt to answer it directly, because doing so would validate the false assumption that the question is predicated on: that by you owning such a gun, others will suffer violence. You could point out that (assuming it's true) you were not the person who committed any of these atrocities and will never choose to do so. Since the assumption is false, the question isn't a valid one.

Of course, as others have pointed out, the question isn't in earnest and doesn't come from actual knowledge. The question isn't even really words meant to convey meaning, it's just a noise they've heard associated with a feeling they share, and the feeling compels them to repeat the noise. You aren't going to turn that into a productive conversation. Remember the quote,

"You cannot reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."

I thought I was logical, but you sir, have mastered what I have merely pondered.

 

[etrain16]

I see plenty of responses that suggest not wasting your time talking to people about this - and I think that is a very short-sided and dangerous way to approach this. Blanket statements like "facts won't work" simply aren't true. And I can give you an example that happened, just yesterday.

My wife had taken our daughter to visit a friend for a play date. While there, she ended up in a long conversation with the girl's mother, someone we've gotten to know over the years. They're about 15 years younger than us. They know we're gun owners, and have just recently started asking questions about guns. After seeing the way things are going, they, who haven't had any interest in guns in the past, are now interested in getting a gun for self-defense. She's already offered to them to join us out at DRRC, where I'm happy to show them various types of guns and let them try anything they want.

But the conversation yesterday turned to current news and a question she presented to my wife about the guns we own - does he have any of those 'semi-auto' guns? At this point, I'm pretty sure my wife probably cracked a smile before she answered. She let her go on to explain how she heard they were 'more dangerous' than 'other' guns. My wife saw this for what it was, an opportunity to educate someone who clearly knows little to nothing about firearms. She shared with her that, in fact, a many, if not a majority of guns, in the US are semi-auto - rifles, handguns, even some shotguns. She shared that they are no more dangerous than any other gun, if used improperly or unsafely. She shared that in the right hands, guns that aren't semi-auto can be fired just as fast as any semi-auto. The response was positive. It was simply a matter of lack of knowledge. Her initial fear about us owning those semi-auto guns was easily put to rest with a short, but factual conversation. And yes, they still want to join us at the range to learn more about guns. She also talked to her about the proposed IP43 and how dangerous it could be not only to our 2A rights, but how that kind of overreach could extend to other areas of our lives. Amazing, my wife actually listens to me when I rant about gun stuff! I'm so proud of her

Fact is, there are plenty of folks that are either on the fence or simply don't know anything about guns, and, as a result, tend to have some uneasiness or outright fear about them. As has been mentioned by many others on this site, we have the opportunity to win converts to our side. They may not become gun collectors or even gun owners, but if they see that guns are nothing but a tool, a tool that, when used safely is no more dangerous than a power tool in your garage, they can learn to separate the hype they hear every day from reality. And if we can do that, we can get people to help us by voting in our favor. So maybe some of the posts here are just out of frustration or just chest thumping, but I would implore all of you, please, when the opportunity to talk about guns comes up with someone who isn't screaming at you - someone who is willing to listen, regardless of their party affiliation or political leaning, please take that opportunity. You won't convince everyone, but every one that does move our way is a step in the right direction.

Back to my wife, I woke up this morning to a text she sent me while I was sleeping last night about the rally in Salem on the 14th and asked me if I was planning to go. She had been reading all the posts and comments on the No on IP43 Facebook page for me since she knows I hate FB. How's that for a pro-2A wife? Unfortunately I'm on call that weekend and can't get that far out of town in the event I get called in, but still, it's good to know she's on the right side.

 

[3MTA3]

Thanks @etrain16 - this is exactly what I'm bringing up in the OP. There are a LOT of undecideds out there that are at the mercy of what they are hearing on the television through the news and daytime talk shows that are targeting women. We have opportunities to educate and especially show others that we are reasonable friends and neighbors. The effort of late is to dehumanize us much like was done to the Jews prior to WW2, we need to do this face to face in order to defeat that effort.

Your wife is my hero of the day!

 

[etrain16]

Thanks @etrain16 - this is exactly what I'm bringing up in the OP. There are a LOT of undecideds out there that are at the mercy of what they are hearing on the television through the news and daytime talk shows that are targeting women. We have opportunities to educate and especially show others that we are reasonable friends and neighbors. The effort of late is to dehumanize us much like was done to the Jews prior to WW2, we need to do this face to face in order to defeat that effort.

Your wife is my hero of the day!

Than you - I'll pass that along to her...

She's usually our school-choice/homeschooling advocate, but she has really paid attention to the attacks on our 2A rights and knows that if passed, would be the beginning of an attack on many other rights - including our right to school choice/homeschooling. I'm very pleased she took this conversation on as it's not one she looks to get into regularly. But she's been instrumental in getting me in front of a number of folks to help have those conversations. One at a time, that really is our best bet.

I liked what you said in your OP - and I think if folks could set aside their anger for just a bit, they would see that there are plenty of reasonable people that are at least willing to listen if we give them a chance and approach it rationally and reasonably.

 

[notazombie]

Respectfully, @etrain16, that's a bit apples and oranges. You had a great interaction with a genuinely curious fence sitter and handled it perfectly. I think the thread title is focused more on the hollow question that is only meant to marginalize us and incite argument. The people coming from that direction shouldn't be engaged. Their minds aren't open to an actual discussion.
Congrats on the new convert. I really feel that a good interaction like that is far more effective than carrying sign or arguing with antis.

 

[Diamondback]

"Why do YOU need a dick? Obviously you're not in the 'breeder' demographic, so I call on you to castrate yourtself right now in the name of rape prevention."

 

[WWShooter]

So I have a fighting chance to resist a tyrannical government.

That's the unanswerable 2A argument in a nutshell - every other reason can be disputed.

Until 2A supporters cut to this simple chase - and the core reason the 2A exists - we're wasting our time and effort defending the bark on the trees while ignoring the forest.

Folks opposed to the 2A can argue that we don't need to - or can't - resist a tyrannical government, but isn't resistance to a tyrannical government the origin story of this country? Let's ask them to defend their repudiation of an act - rebellion against a "duly constituted government" - we celebrate almost daily. That may be more difficult than citing statistics about how fast 911 responds to a call for help to show I don't need a gun in my night stand.

 

[Dan Adams]

My daughter, who loves to shoot and is an excellent shot, said to me the other say, "Nobody needs a military-style rifle." My reply? "What has killed more people, including children, than anything else in the last few years? Distracted drivers, most of them while using their cell phones. Nobody needs a cell phone. So shouldn't cell phones be banned?" I could tell she really wanted to come up with a reason why cell phones are necessary, I don't think she noticed she reflexively put her hand over her phone on the table. After a long pause, she said, "Let's talk about this some other time!"

 

[wired]

My AR's are for target practice so that if I need to shoot someone I can be good at it.