Poll: White light skill level

[American123]

I'm not gonna say it... I'm not gonna say it....




Wait for it......

I'll fill the gap.

 

[Member 53328]

The lights on phones can be "handy" but I never have been able to understand some who use them as a tool. Have worked with some who would not carry a light since they had the phone. The lights on a phone do such a suck job compared to even cheap, small hand held lights I have always carried a light. Only time the phone light is ever used is if I rarely need light for something and for some reason do not have a light with me. I have a few little lights that use one AAA battery that I can carry in my pocket as easy as a pen that completely blow the one of the phone away.

Yup. Get the right tool for the job. My phone is only good for calls/texts/GPS and waisting time I never get back on this forum. Haha.

I will always carry a light in my pocket along with one on the gun. I have extra lights in the rigs, kitchen, bedroom, etc.

A quality light is a great non-lethal defensive tool and if used correctly can save your life and keep you out of the court room. Also a good impact weapon.

 

[Alexx1401]

Yup. Get the right tool for the job. My phone is only good for calls/texts/GPS and waisting time I never get back on this forum. Haha.

I will always carry a light in my pocket along with one on the gun. I have extra lights in the rigs, kitchen, bedroom, etc.

A quality light is a great non-lethal defensive tool and if used correctly can save your life and keep you out of the court room. Also a good impact weapon.

I hear that. The LED lights have gotten so damn good and so damn cheap that I make a habit of just always having one. Dirt cheap ones that use one AAA battery put out an amazing light for something so damn small. Once in a great while the light on the phone has come in handy. Beats the old days of trying to hold a lighter in hand to see. That was always fun back in the day.

 

[Nosferatu]

I can toss an extra grain of 800x in my 155gr 10mm load for the G29. That'll light 'em up...twice!

 

[RBB4ME]

Really? Arrogance? I asked a poll question. Thought that was acceptable here.

Even stood up to the usual know-it-all weirdos who have to reply to everything (Hint for the newbies, they only think they are smart about everything). Don't be afraid.

As far as getting together for a summit or symposium, still happy to put something together. Doesn't have to be at Cerberus.
But I am still willing to provide my bonafides ahead of time, so that you know 100% who I am and what I've done.

There are a few other ranges between Washington and Oregon where we can meet and learn together. I am happy to facilitate and make the cost of the first meet free to all. But this will not always be the case.

 

[Yarome]

 

[AmanSlayman]

A friend of mine once asked why every one of my guns has a flashlight on it...

 

[Alexx1401]

A friend of mine once asked why every one of my guns has a flashlight on it...

When it comes to hand guns all my life I have seen a LOT of grief on anything to do with sights. The sights, the lights, laser, anything. There is always a number of people who think you need nothing. That you should "point and shoot". I have met a couple people who really could do this and actually hit what they shot at that was not so close they could almost touch it. They are the exception. Almost every person who "told" me how good they were at this could not even stay on paper when we got to the range. So for me? As I get older I want all the help I can get. Will always go for a short rifle now if I can. Even on those they all have lights. For hand guns several have a laser. Many love to hate them and matters none to me. Far as I know I don't own a piece of the places making them so not trying to sell them. I like all the help I can get as I need something to reliable hit what I shoot at if its not standing right in front of me. The smaller the pistol the worse this gets for me. With a full size favorite like the 1911 still not too bad quick as long as I can see the front sight at least. Get into the "pocket pistols" and I really need all the help I can get. Many also have never had to shoot something that is either shooting back or at least moving. Shooting holes in paper is a VERY different thing than when the target is moving and or shooting back.

 

[RBB4ME]

When it comes to hand guns all my life I have seen a LOT of grief on anything to do with sights. The sights, the lights, laser, anything. There is always a number of people who think you need nothing. That you should "point and shoot". I have met a couple people who really could do this and actually hit what they shot at that was not so close they could almost touch it. They are the exception. Almost every person who "told" me how good they were at this could not even stay on paper when we got to the range. So for me? As I get older I want all the help I can get. Will always go for a short rifle now if I can. Even on those they all have lights. For hand guns several have a laser. Many love to hate them and matters none to me. Far as I know I don't own a piece of the places making them so not trying to sell them. I like all the help I can get as I need something to reliable hit what I shoot at if its not standing right in front of me. The smaller the pistol the worse this gets for me. With a full size favorite like the 1911 still not too bad quick as long as I can see the front sight at least. Get into the "pocket pistols" and I really need all the help I can get. Many also have never had to shoot something that is either shooting back or at least moving. Shooting holes in paper is a VERY different thing than when the target is moving and or shooting back.

What you say is absolutely true. Scottie Reitz of ITTS.com will sight you chapter and verse of gunfights where the opponent's were 6 feet away from each other and missed repeatedly! He's a federal court expert on gunfights and hates when people dismiss the use of sighted fire.

White lights are a tool unto themselves. They can be a force-multiplyer or a de-escalater. Get training from someone!

 

[Alexx1401]

What you say is absolutely true. Scottie Reitz of ITTS.com will sight you chapter and verse of gunfights where the opponent's were 6 feet away from each other and missed repeatedly! He's a federal court expert on gunfights and hates when people dismiss the use of sighted fire.

White lights are a tool unto themselves. They can be a force-multiplyer or a de-escalater. Get training from someone!

YEP! One advantage we have today is the tons of shoots that are on video. Look how many times even LEO's who had to have some training get into a shoot where they can not hit what they are shooting at. Its not nearly as easy for 99% of the population as some think it is. I have seen a very few guys who made it look so easy it was almost like magic but, they are the rare exception. Like all "talent" some just have it. I need LOT's of practice and I know I will never shoot like those guys so again I will take all the help I can get just in case I ever again have to shoot at something other than paper.

 

[Alexx1401]

Really? Arrogance? I asked a poll question. Thought that was acceptable here.

Even though this forum is moderated the people who run it try to stay hands off sometimes. You just have to let it roll off and laugh it off. The place is one hell of a lot of fun. When someone makes you mad try to laugh it off and hit next. Its well worth it for all the good fun and knowledge here

 

[WillametteWill]

I taught a class last weekend on handheld light use for defensive use. (Didn't feel appropriate to post prior here as "advertising.") Have done some prior for my wife's groups as well. Light control, pointing your gun in the appropriate location while you light is in another, working around corners, shooting one handed while holding a light, malfunction clearances when you have a light in your hand (you will see more FTE's commonly when shooting one handed or from compromised positions) and many other factors are not natural and benefit from practice under controlled training conditions.

Learning your equipment is not up to the task is also important, many ended up using my loaner lights, because...
"I wish I had less light."
~Said no one ever

We finished the course with a no-shoot / shoot drill where target and threat identification were required. All noted that it was challenging (because now you had to do more than just shoot), and this was with an experienced group of shooters. @Cerberus Group has good comments prior (as usual).

I think "active self protection" videos are relevant here. In the however many thousand of videos he has reviewed, very few have included a light being employed.

Some food for thought, just because he is not showing videos of something, doesn't mean they are not occurring frequently. They may not have the quality to get him marketable clicks for $$$. Many low light encounters fall under this. I've used lights during encounters hundreds of times. When properly used it helps to you avoid becoming one of his videos.

 

[American123]

I taught a class last weekend on handheld light use for defensive use. (Didn't feel appropriate to post prior here as "advertising.") Have done some prior for my wife's groups as well. Light control, pointing your gun in the appropriate location while you light is in another, working around corners, shooting one handed while holding a light, malfunction clearances when you have a light in your hand (you will see more FTE's commonly when shooting one handed or from compromised positions) and many other factors are not natural and benefit from practice under controlled training conditions.

Learning your equipment is not up to the task is also important, many ended up using my loaner lights, because...
"I wish I had less light."
~Said no one ever

We finished the course with a no-shoot / shoot drill where target and threat identification were required. All noted that it was challenging (because now you had to do more than just shoot), and this was with an experienced group of shooters. @Cerberus Group has good comments prior (as usual).


Some food for thought, just because he is not showing videos of something, doesn't mean they are not occurring frequently. They may not have the quality to get him marketable clicks for $$$. Many low light encounters fall under this. I've used lights during encounters hundreds of times. When properly used it helps to you avoid becoming one of his videos.

I don't discredit your points, but, again… we are getting into the weeds a bit. Firstly, if as a person you make the decision to employ the flashlight in a potential self defense encounter it is because there is already something you are aware of that is concerning to you.

I get it, I carry a nice bright handheld and a WML, and I totally agree that most gun people are inadequately trained in the thinking part, and the one handed (strong and off hand shooting) part, and over practiced in the "shoot the target really fast" from a stand still part. It's like the guys who only lift with their upper body and never their legs, or flexibility.

If you have used lights during encounters hundreds of times I'd say we can put you in the category of law enforcement and your needs/situations faced will have some overlap with civilians, but not be exactly the same, but I agree bright lights can help prevent situations, especially because you can legally be rude and put 1000 lumens in a person's face to assess what they may be up to and what they have in their hands/pockets but pointing a gun at them without sufficient cause is a no no. So having the handheld is important.

Regarding active self protection, there are videos of law enforcement using lights, but likely few civilians just because of the averages. Many police encounters happen at night, they also often carry lights. Many civilians don't.

 

[titsonritz]

Learning your equipment is not up to the task is also important, many ended up using my loaner lights, because...
"I wish I had less light."
~Said no one ever

We finished the course with a no-shoot / shoot drill where target and threat identification were required. All noted that it was challenging (because now you had to do more than just shoot), and this was with an experienced group of shooters. @Cerberus Group has good comments prior (as usual).

We've played with low light up in Goldendale and one time Steve set up shoot/no shoot drills where he paint the target black and he had cheap squirt guns that he also painted painted black and hung them some some of the targets stage at varying distances with some overlapping, it was incredibly difficult to ID the threats from the non-treats. Some lights were clearly not up to the task.

We also played with hitting each other with the lights, (hand helds, pistol lights were removed from the pistols and uppers where off the lowers for safety) so we could experience defeating or succumbing to the photonic barriers. Very eye opening or closing as the case may be.

 

[Nosferatu]

We also played with hitting each other with the lights, (hand helds, pistol lights were removed from the pistols and uppers where off the lowers for safety) so we could experience defeating or succumbing to the photonic barriers. Very eye opening or closing as the case may be.

This is why my wife and I carry a handheld light all the time. Pulsating light is exponentially disorientating to an opponent. Hit someone with a bright, pulsating light and you have an opportunity to escape or strike, depending on circumstance.

 

[titsonritz]

This is why my wife and I carry a handheld light all the time. Pulsating light is exponentially disorientating to an opponent. Hit someone with a bright, pulsating light and you have an opportunity to escape or strike, depending on circumstance.

I find strobes to be disorientating as the user so I stay away from them myself, I can pulsate it manually by turning it on and off to create the same effect without the disorientation.

What I was referring to above, is while someone is lighting you up with white light, say an X300U, and you hit them back with a Modlite OKW you have defeated their photonic barrier with a more capable light and are no longer blinded, they are. They same goes for a laser, if it is not powerful enough to push past a white light, even your own, it becomes worthless as an aiming device.

 

[American123]

This is why my wife and I carry a handheld light all the time. Pulsating light is exponentially disorientating to an opponent. Hit someone with a bright, pulsating light and you have an opportunity to escape or strike, depending on circumstance.

I've never found strobes to be more effective than a constant high brightness. This is just in my own testing against myself. I turn off the strobe functions for this reason.

 

[Nosferatu]

I find strobes to be disorientating as the user so I stay away from them myself, I can pulsate it manually by turning it on and off to create the same effect without the disorientation.

Interesting. It's never bothered me. Works well against bubblegum dogs too!

 

[Member 53328]

Sense we are talking about lights -

Go outside in the dark and look up at the sky. Pick out a star/moon etc. and spin in a circle keeping your focus on that one object. After a few spins and you start getting dizzy flash the light directly in your eyes.

I guarantee you will fall down or almost hit the floor. Lights are great at disorienting you. Throwing off the equilibrium.

I didnt think it was real until I made a fool of myself and tried it.

 

[American123]

Sense we are talking about lights -

Go outside in the dark and look up at the sky. Pick out a star/moon etc. and spin in a circle keeping your focus on that one object. After a few spins and you start getting dizzy flash the light directly in your eyes.

I guarantee you will fall down or almost hit the floor. Lights are great at disorienting you. Throwing off the equilibrium.

I didnt think it was real until I made a fool of myself and tried it.

Does this super-not-terrible-sounding-theory also work if you don't force yourself to be dizzy first by spinning in circles while staring at the moon?