When Your Boss Asks You to Write Your Congressmen

[Stomper]

You know what? Although it may be coming off a bit more venomous than I intended... I'm going to leave my post above, we're all big boys here, right? I guess I'm just trying to say that there is PLENTY of evil deeds going on on ALL SIDES... and I'm not exactly trying single out anyone (or two) around here for public ridicule.

 

[Trlsmn]

I agree that it could be seen that way. On the other hand the employers would have no way of knowing if they did or did not.

Sure they do, companies cam easily monitor employees email.

You could say the Employer is looking out for the best interest of the employee. If these reforms go through they could lose thier jobs. It is not always a case of "whats good for the company is good for the emoployee" but here I think it is.

A company doesn't have the right to use my name and reputation for their own agenda. Who it benefits is irrelevant, this is taking away my democratic rights.

This is un-American! It's called coercion and it's illegal!

 

[Trlsmn]

What's the big deal? The unions tell their people how to vote, and it's not "ask". I remember my union buddies being forced to buy fundraising tickets they couldn't afford and gamble with the local's house bookie. Unions used to bomb out taverns who didn't buy their booze from the right distributor.

Given your forum name, Unionguy, your complaint is quite ironic.

Sauce for the goose. . .

The difference is that there is no way the union to know how the union worker did vote aka it's just a suggestion.

 

[Stomper]

ummm....... the business manager in my union seems to be able to know who voted for who... and I'm talking in-house union votes AND political votes in a supossedly SECRET BALLOT vote! I had a union "brother" tell me (pale faced) that the bus. manager turned around and rattled off to him (the union brother) what politicians and ballot measures he voted for.... WHAT?!!!!

Sounds to me like the elections office has a list of union members names and when they see their signatures come through on the verification process those ballots are set aside and "specially counted" to see if we are voting the way we are supposed to... it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Anyone who uses the company email system for ANYTHING other than business is just asking for trouble... use your own email and coputer.

 

[unionguy]

I guess people forget that if it wasn't for these big bad evil corporations millions of people would be out of work. It is a very small percentage of the population who choose to be in control of their own employment. No they obviously are not solely concerned for the welfare of the employees. But if the company goes down the employees will have no work. It seems it may be good for them both to appose the health care reform as presented.

This is a random argument...if corporations scope was more limited, it would just mean more opportunities for small businesses and smaller corporations. Corporations are a legal charter. Originally, our founding fathers were extremely worried about the effects of allowing corporations to grow uncontrolled what effect they would have on our democracy. That's why early corporations were strictly controlled about what they could do and how long they would be allowed to exist.

Today, most industries are completely dominated by 3-4 corporations...is that good for competition? Is that good for our democracy? And, now with the economic collapse of last fall, we've seen that when a few CEO's at a few mega-corporations sneeze, we all catch the flu.

 

[unionguy]

ummm....... the business manager in my union seems to be able to know who voted for who... and I'm talking in-house union votes AND political votes in a supossedly SECRET BALLOT vote! I had a union "brother" tell me (pale faced) that the bus. manager turned around and rattled off to him (the union brother) what politicians and ballot measures he voted for.... WHAT?!!!!

Sounds to me like the elections office has a list of union members names and when they see their signatures come through on the verification process those ballots are set aside and "specially counted" to see if we are voting the way we are supposed to... it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Anyone who uses the company email system for ANYTHING other than business is just asking for trouble... use your own email and coputer.

In my union, any member could watch the votes being counted to prevent such nonsense. Sounds to me like the Business Manager broke the law.

 

[unionguy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaaa................ 14:1 doantion ratio, huh? Maybe the donations that are ON THE BOOKS... but I KNOW about the "under the table" donations that are shunted through other avenues that MORE than make up for that... just like there are 47 million "Americans" without health insurance.... riiiiiiiiiiiight.


I'm in a union and that is a laugh what you just said... UNFORTUNATELY my union (as are most labor unions) is a part of the AFL-CIO and they gave MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS to leftist political causes... care to guess where over $6,000 of THAT money comes from... EACH YEAR? Try my union dues... not my LOCAL dues, but the two different NATIONAL dues that get dinked from my gross earnings EVERY WEEK, and I get absolutely NO SAY in where that money goes.


Unions have no power? Riiiiiiiiight..... ever hear of the SEIU and ACORN running a money laundering operation that Bernie Madoff would be proud of?!! Sure you have, "unionguy" think about it... money laundering, "card check" so the UNION thugs... er, I mean "ORGANIZERS" can see who voted to go union or not in any given shop and intimidate them into voting their way... BTW- have you heard about the ALF-CIO official that was just appointed to the board of directors in the NY Federal Reserve... or is that just about "social justice"?

Now I'm not saying there aren't SLIMEY "corporate thugs" out there as well... THERE IS, but there is nothing wrong with an employer having a meeting any laying out the details that they perceive that will be a threat to everyone's livelihood in that company, and perhaps ASKING their employees to take political action (if they care to).... maybe with those home made "Astro-Turf" signs protesting big goverment and higher taxes, while those (sometimes paid to protest) with the PROFESSIONALLY made, "organized" signs advocate for big government health-care, gun control, and socialism... BAH!!!

You should be more concerned with the union dopes who are trying to unravel this country at light speed and are SUPPOSED to be looking out for you... but aren't in the slightest. The kool-aid you're serving up is too bitter for my tastes, but it makes for some real nice shallow puddles on the roadside!!

I guess we'll have to disagree on this one. If you really believe that unions have more control over our politicians than the combined power of corporations, then so be it. You can look up the donation/contribution ratio and it is 14 to 1. As for "under the table", if that goes on it is illegal. And, I would argue that business has considerably more access to our politicians than union leaders do. Go check out the invite lists to thos $10,000 a seat fundraisers.

I actually think the financial bailout says it all--when the corporate chieftains in Big Finance got into trouble, our politicians found TRILLIONS of dollars to bail them out...and both Democrats and Republicans did this together. Bush (and incoming Obama) worked hand in hand to get this done. That should tell you who has the real power in America.

Compare that to any legislation the unions try to pass...you ever see it happen that fast?

 

[unionguy]

I guess people forget that if it wasn't for the big bad unions and the labor movement, people would have the opportunity to work for $1/hour, six days a week 12 hours a day, with no overtime. People would still get the opportunity to get fired when they were sick,never get a vacation day, work in unsafe conditions, and live by the whims of their employer. People would still have the unique family bonding experience of laboring day in and day out beside their eight year old in the same factory.

Yes, there are examples of union corruption, but unions have done more for all workers (union and nonunion) than most people realize. There needs to be a balance between corporate interests ( they need to make a profit) and the interests of the worker. However, the worker's interests have taken a backseat to corporate greed for decades.

There are places to work, without unions, where employees are treated fairly. Those companies have good working conditions largely because of legislation and demands placed on employers, over decades, by organized labor.

And.....the relationship dynamic between employer to employee is very different than union to member.

Well said. The decline of your average working family's living standard in America follows the same decline in the number of workers in the unions over the past 30 years.

 

[unionguy]

I am not defending corporations who treat their employees poorly. But you should look into the conditions some of your union brethren suffer under back east. Not pretty, not fair, not beneficent.

I totally agree with you...I don't support unions that coerce or intimidate their members either. But, because some union does it somewhere, doesn't mean its OK for the big corporations to do it.

 

[Monkeyman]

The difference is that there is no way the union to know how the union worker did vote aka it's just a suggestion.

Sorry, Trismn, but that is painfully naive. How do you think The Chicago Machine that spawned Obama's career has held power for OVER 100 YEARS? They steal elections, they COUNT THE VOTES, and they use the unions to help out as muscle. Google Rahm Emanuel and Don Tomczak, who was the head of the city's (unionized) Water Bureau. Water Dept. employess went out on city time twisting arms for Rahmmy in 2002. One example.

And Unionguy, Union Officials break the law all the time. Because almost all unions are mob-controlled and have been since the dawn of the labor movement. Does the Teamster's Pension Fund ring a bell?

Gringo, you make great points about the good things the labor movement has accomplished. Most of those gains were achieved long ago, and the unions have pretty much eaten their young ever since.

Chicago has gone national, and right now I fear Big Labor and Big Brother a whole lot more than I fear Big Oil or Big Pharma.

 

[ZeroRing]

Ooops. Gotta make it gun related or move it to Off Topic.

Indeed.

But lets keep it civil.

 

[USMC1911]

Sorry, Trismn, but that is painfully naive. How do you think The Chicago Machine that spawned Obama's career has held power for OVER 100 YEARS? They steal elections, they COUNT THE VOTES, and they use the unions to help out as muscle. Google Rahm Emanuel and Don Tomczak, who was the head of the city's (unionized) Water Bureau. Water Dept. employess went out on city time twisting arms for Rahmmy in 2002. One example.

And Unionguy, Union Officials break the law all the time. Because almost all unions are mob-controlled and have been since the dawn of the labor movement. Does the Teamster's Pension Fund ring a bell?

Gringo, you make great points about the good things the labor movement has accomplished. Most of those gains were achieved long ago, and the unions have pretty much eaten their young ever since.

Chicago has gone national, and right now I fear Big Labor and Big Brother a whole lot more than I fear Big Oil or Big Pharma.

I can see how a internal union vote can be seen and counted, but I would love to know your conspercy theory on how they know what you vote in nonunion/political votes and how it gets back to the union?

 

[Monkeyman]

I can see how a internal union vote can be seen and counted, but I would love to know your conspercy theory on how they know what you vote in nonunion/political votes and how it gets back to the union?

Well, let's use the example I know for fact, not a "conspercy" theory.

In the City of Chicago, the city is divided politically into 50 wards. Each ward has about 50-75 "precincts", and each precinct has a "captain", someone appointed by the Regular Democratic Organization. Usually the city councilman, or "Alderman" appoints the precinct captains. Sometimes it's the ward committeeman, or boss, who appoints.

The precinct captain is almost always a city worker. His job, the jobs of his family, friends, and neighbors, is predicated on "getting out the vote". You see, in Chicago, sewer workers, policemen, fireman, garbagemen, electricians, etc., you name it, are employed by the city on the unwritten agreement that your job requires your vote and the votes of all your voting age family, dead or alive, and they tell you who to vote for. The precinct captain knows where every city-worker voter in his precinct is employed, and he knows who got him the job; it's called "patronage", and you don't get a city job unless you have a sponsor who can vouch for your ability to get out the vote.

Long story short, they know city workers are going to vote a straight Democratic ticket, and they have a pretty good idea of which way the other neighbors in the precinct will vote.

What's left to chance is settled by election judges who are on the payroll of the Machine. They simply look at your vote after it's cast, if there's any question.

If you think that election judges in Chicago, and, for that matter, all over the big cities in the US are not crooked, you are simply not paying attention. It's happening right here in Oregon; the mail-in vote is great for lazy rednecks, but it's so ripe for corruption as to be ridiculous.

Conspercy, indeed. Read much? Try "Stealing Elections" by John Fund, for a basic, fact filled overview. If you like, I'll p.m. you a list of reading materials documenting corruption in the Chicago Machine. I have a lot of friends and acquaintances back home who make a good living stealing votes.

 

[USMC1911]

I really dont think your example is the norm in most parts of the US. I also think that whatever union your in is going to donate/support whoever they think is going to support there ideas/business no matter what side of the political ticket there on.

 

[ob1]

In the union I'm in, the union doesnt' control your job...unlike how your boss does. So, I think the power of the "ask" is very different. Certainly, I don't advocate violence and never saw it in my union. Finally, do you really think unions have as much power as corporations do? Big biz already spends 14 dollars for ever 1 the unions do during presidential elections...so, i'm worried about them expanding their power into directly getting their employees to write/call congress etc.

CEF--good point, but it is a slippery slope and the employer will know who worked with the 'advocacy specialists' and who didn't.

Sorry, but you are simply understating what goes on in MANY unions today. Not to cast a cloud on what goes on in your happy local(s) but, intimidation is a commonly used means of controlling the membership and others. Anyone who does not tow the local's line can be walking a lonely path indeed.
.In one of my former occupations, I have seen this personally dozens of times with unions all over the country. Employees finding themselves astray of the local's version of the truth can face physical threat to themselves and family members, vandalism to their personal property, and assault. I am not talking about the Samuel Gompers times either, it goes on now, deny it if you wish, but I have seen it happen.

. I am not exactly a fan of what (to employ the overworked buzz term) "Corporate America" does at times, but the unions in this country do not smell like roses either. The difference is that what goes on in the face to face level at the locals is less visible and easier to cover up or deny. During many labor disputes, you can fill books with documented violations of labor law and criminal law commited by the "mighty mighty" union members. And by the way, when one of these guys does get caught, the local may receive a fine from the NLRB, but, the local's membership is rarely told of what has happened.
.Sorry, but that union halo just doesn't always fit.

"

Chicago has gone national, and right now I fear Big Labor and Big Brother a whole lot more than I fear Big Oil or Big Pharma"

p.s. monkeyman, +1

 

[Stomper]

It's REALLY easy for the Union Bosses here in Oregon to find out how you voted in political elections.... you have to SIGN you envelope and that signature is compared to the one on file in the Elections Office (staffed by OPEU members) to verify the YOU are the one who voted.... you don't think they have a list of various Union members on file too? Then it gets set aside, the inner secrecy envelope is opened and they record how your ballot is marked and let your Union Boss know the results... not too hard to do... I never DID like "Vote by Mail".