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This one has me asking questions, many of which have been already asked by the good folks here.

What ever happened to the super-duper Extreme Risk Protection order that is law in WA? I don't care much for any law which abrogates a citizen's civil rights without due process but, if there was EVER a poster child for someone who I'd make an exception for, it'd be this POS.

Maybe by starting at the end I can better understand this; the killer killed himself. I believe we are all born with an incredible sense of self-preservation, how on earth do you reach the point where your final act on planet earth is to kill yourself? May as well move on since suicide happens.

I'm not even getting into how the POS could possibly have legally bought a gun, lets face if, if someone is prepared to kill themselves, lying on federal form 4473 is not a major concern.

So now I'm at the prospect of murdering another human being who bore my children. Enough of that, I've created my own headache.

I truly cannot understand how anyone can get this far down a rat hole.

On the other side, the system failed this victim. Plain and simple. I know the system is not, and never will be perfect, but bail was granted? Really?

In this case, a "Red Flag" wouldn't have prevented any of this, as the killer hadn't yet purchased a firearm, so he didn't have any to start with to take!
He was also blocked from his purchase in Oregon, which shows the current system did work ( somewhat) but, why wasn't this P.O.S. arrested for attempting to purchase?

In short, there are a bunch of SERIOUS questions that need to be answered, chief amounst them: Why was this P.O.S. out of jail after violating his wife's restraining order multiple times, and WHY did the Judge refuse to raise the bail to prevent him from getting out?
Sounds like the Judge needs to be disbarred and spend some time in the clink, and the others involved in defending this P.O.S. get out also need to be held accountable, and Finally, LEO need to be held accountable, 1) For not arresting and holding him after he was denied a gun, and 2) Why was he able to make bail?
 
According to some 'felons' need guns - they say who cares if a felon has a gun.

They need one just as much you, the law abiding.

Laws, we don't need no stinkin laws...
 
Plus, it's not always the male doing the violence.

A buddy of mine had a wife that would slap him hard when she disagreed with him and punched him when she was really pissed.

He is a strong athlete and could've easily pounded her, but didn't. Just took it.

He admitted this to me after we'd had a few beers.

He was embarrassed as hell, but didn't know what to do. They had a child and he didn't want to break up the family.

Eventually, he divorced her.

She took him to the cleaners when 'she' should've been in jail, if not prison...

This kind of DV is usually not mentioned, but it happens with a lot more frequency than ever discussed as men are too embarrassed to confess to being a 'battered husband'.

This is why men need to start playing the woman's side of the game. Use the law to your advantage.
If it was me (super easy to say when it's not by the way)
Record those instances, and call the cops, have her arrested, have it on record. If he would have done that and had documentation of the physical abuse, he wouldn't have been cleaned out.

Men need to put their egos a side to protect themselves
 
I never did see how he got the gun, he was denied a purchase for a rifle? So maybe he already had a pistol?

And why the heck aren't they going after these guys for failing background checks or lying on Fed forms.......

OH YEAH!!! Because 1. They don't have the resources.
2. Because some of these denials are from Illegals, and they are off limits.
AND the winner. 3. Because it's only the law abiding they want to punish and strip of their freedoms.
 
In this case, a "Red Flag" wouldn't have prevented any of this, as the killer hadn't yet purchased a firearm, so he didn't have any to start with to take!
He was also blocked from his purchase in Oregon,
which shows the current system did work ( somewhat) but, why wasn't this P.O.S. arrested for attempting to purchase?

He got the gun from someone else and they are going to file charges against them.

Where did you guys read this?

I've received ONE canned response from my plea for more info on this story to the local news channels.
Go figure.
 
I found a bit more information here: Sheriff's office releases new details in shooting outside Hazel Dell school | ClarkCountyToday.com

Have to be careful reading this, it seems to conflate a no-contact order with a restraining order, I have no idea if they are one and the same.

On Oct. 6, CCSO received a report from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office that Hill had attempted to purchase a rifle at a Wal-Mart in Portland, but had been denied due to the no contact order showing up in his background check. Court documents show Hill claimed he was trying to buy the weapon to get rid of "vermin" in his house.
Charges are forwarded to the county prosecutor for an attempt to possess a firearm in violation of the restraining order. Hill was arrested on the charges over a month later, on Nov. 7.

If this is correct, it took over a month to charge the POS for what should have been a egregious violation of a court order.

On Nov. 7, Tiffany Hill reports seeing Keland at several locations throughout the day. Deputies later find him at a nearby bowling alley. A GPS tracking device is found on Tiffany's vehicle. Hill is arrested and his phone and vehicle are seized as evidence.

Based on evidence obtained in that arrest, as well as new medical information from the incident on Sept. 11, Hill's charges are upgraded and county prosecutors request that his bail be increased from $75,000 to $2 million, due to a risk assessment showing that Tiffany Hill is at "extreme risk" of being killed by the defendant.
A judge declines to meet the prosecuting attorney's request, but raises Hill's bail to $250,000. On Nov. 21, Hill makes bail and is released.
Five days later, his estranged wife is dead and their three children are without parents.

Let me guess, the "judge" is a whistleblower :rolleyes:
 

Meanwhile, anti-gun people blame the gun. The media lies and says we had 300+ mass shooting this year alone. No anti-gun person is trying to fix the severely broken system as evidence by this tragic story.

I blame anti-gun people for this death. Imagine if the millions Bloomberg pours into gun control went to fixing our system the results we would have on reducing violent crime...
 
Be interesting to follow the bail money on this one. If I recall right an inmate has to come up with the full bail, $250,000 in this case, or put up 10% of that, $25,000, and convince a bail bondsman to guarantee the rest. Regardless of whether a $2,000,000 bail would have prevented this tragedy, one side of the criminal justice system believed $250k would keep the POS where he needed to be, the other side believed it would take $2m, those numbers aren't even close. Something is seriously wrong with this system.
 
Should learn more today. Prosecutor was on News12 this morning, she gave the judge a pass on the bail saying not his fault, says the law needs to be changed. She did say it was solely the perp's fault, somewhat refreshing to learn it wasn't the gun's fault o_O

Anyway, News 12 said the judge will be on TV today to talk about how bail is set, presumably his hands were tied, we shall see.
 
Should learn more today. Prosecutor was on News12 this morning, she gave the judge a pass on the bail saying not his fault, says the law needs to be changed. She did say it was solely the perp's fault, somewhat refreshing to learn it wasn't the gun's fault o_O


Anyway, News 12 said the judge will be on TV today to talk about how bail is set, presumably his hands were tied, we shall see.

Oh it will be! I wonder if they ever will tell us how/who from he got the gun?

Judges hands tied? I'm sure. Too bad there isn't a way to get some sort of an emergency declared to get a law passed to lock an animal like this guy up like the rabid dog he was? Oh, wait.....

I believe there should be laws making people that are grossly negligent with storing/handling firearms responsible for deaths and injuries from shootings. We just need the people writing those laws to have half a brain. Someone beside the majority party in Salem.
 
Well, I saw the News 12 piece where they interviewed the judge who set the bail.

According to him, judges have to consider several factors when deciding how much bail is enough to keep someone in jail. He went on to say that the judge often doesn't know what resources an inmate may have available, like friends and family who may cough up the bail.

The bottom line I come away with is, based on the judges words, he didn't believe the inmate in this case could possibly have posted $250k bail and get out. My question to judges faced with this decision: if setting bail is to keep dangerous people in jail, why the heck not deny bail or set it so high, like the $2m the prosecutor asked for, that there's ZERO chance of a bail out?

The prosecutor gave the judge a pass on this one, maybe she should try explaining her position to the victim's family.
 
Broke system. Twice I was able to get either a $1,000,000 or $500,000 bail on first offense DUI suspect. Sound excessive? In both cases the defendants went on drinking benders (spouse left) and had multiple DUI arrests in a few weeks, like 4. Each one I'd treated as a first offense with low bail because they were only arrests, not convictions.

Went in and explained to the judge that this person was going to kill themselves or someone else. Bail increase granted.

In both cases the defendant did not seem to be a "bad" person, but the system worked to protect society (including the drunk driver). I don't know what constraints the judges currently have but this should have been a no bail hold in a working system.
 
Well, I saw the News 12 piece where they interviewed the judge who set the bail.

Thanks for bringing this here. I saw the teaser at the beginning of the 12 news at 4 where the gal said I'd have to watch the 6:00 o'clock news.. You are a better man than me if you can withstand watching that much of our local news.
 
If a legal pro can clarify, I'm just an amateur... but IMO the bail system is subjective. If we are going to have one then we have to set price limits. Judges can raise that based on the case at hand but that means the whole process is subjective on finding the right amount. The whole idea behind bail is to provide incentive to not flee the trial, also allowing the suspect to have the time to better prepare their defense. Then there are charges that are so serious that no bail is even offered. Point is, the system is flawed by nature. Low level crimes it makes sense. High level crimes no bail makes sense. Its that in between area where problems like this arrise.

In my book, all charges involving violence of any kind, dont deserve bail. That sucks for the wrongfully accused... but they stand a better chance of acquittal in court anyways than the vast majority of violent cases which are legit charges. We treat violent crimes way too lenient in America.
 
I believe it's unrealistic to think our system can protect us. We all know a cop can't even do anything for the victim until a crime has been committed & that's not a criticism on the police, it's just the way any system has to work--

With that said all I can do is place blame on the victim for failing to take basic steps to defend herself, like having a small gun she coulda carried with her everywhere she goes and some training in it's use

I'm not normally a victim blamer but face up to the facts-- She knew the guy wanted to kill her
 
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