What makes the M4/M16 type rifles more deadly besides the select fire trigger?

[American123]

I don't get any of this debate at all. M1 Garands were the military service rifle of the US and they are able to be purchased and have been purchased for more than the past 70 years (guess) or so by the public.

The distinction of "military rifle" and "civilian rifle" is irrelevant, the only meaningful difference is what "The Law" says civilians are limited in possession.
(Despite the fact that all gun laws being unconstitutional)

The NFA and the various federal GCA's being the descriptors of those.

 

[RX-79G]

When it comes to the established definition of a 'machine-gun' and an 'assault-rifle', the functions of the rifle very much come into play.

To somehow redefine semi-auto rifles as 'assault rifles' and 'weapons of war' is fundamentally incorrect. There is no argument here. There is no opinion to be had. There is a very clear distinction between a select-fire weapon and one that is semi-auto.

I didn't say that those four things are the same. Why do you think they are the same?

You're aware that only one of those terms is used in law, right?

 

[RX-79G]

The irony of crafting laws to stop crime that ignores the laws already and will continue to ignore them after those laws were put into place.

I perceive the intent of NFA had nothing to do with ACTUALLY stopping criminals, but as just an opportunity to restrict the general populace's access to those items, otherwise, why would they have made it an option to pay $200 to buy those items, which at the time, kept all but the ridiculously wealthy (which included mobsters) from buying them legally if they wished.

Because there was no GCA at the time. The NFA was the first time that background checks were used. So it wasn't just about the tax - it was about preventing known criminals from purchasing Tommy guns at the hardware store.

 

[American123]

Because there was no GCA at the time. The NFA was the first time that background checks were used. So it wasn't just about the tax - it was about preventing known criminals from purchasing Tommy guns at the hardware store.

Ok, but did it stop known criminals from obtaining them is the question.

 

[RX-79G]

Ok, but did it stop known criminals from obtaining them is the question.

As they were the equivalent of $3800 in the 1920s, I doubt there was a big used market to select from. It was pretty much the only machinegun you could buy back then.

 

[American123]

As they were the equivalent of $3800 in the 1920s, I doubt there was a big used market to select from. It was pretty much the only machinegun you could buy back then.

It seems like straw purchases would have been easy to use if it wasn't a monetary hinderance to buy them new. As I understand it, the mob was flush with cash thanks to prohibition, I'm sure there were plenty of people involved with the mob who didn't have criminal records because they were not directly involved in the most egregious activities.

 

[titsonritz]

I would argue the KAC SR-15 is vastly superior to the military M16/M4 family. MilSpec is simply a known product, most claiming it is ain't it.

 

[RX-79G]

It seems like straw purchases would have been easy to use if it wasn't a monetary hinderance to buy them new. As I understand it, the mob was flush with cash thanks to prohibition, I'm sure there were plenty of people involved with the mob who didn't have criminal records because they were not directly involved in the most egregious activities.

And those people would be prosecuted when their registered MG disappeared. Not worth it.

 

[American123]

And those people would be prosecuted when their registered MG disappeared. Not worth it.

It was stolen, I don't see what is difficult here.

 

[titsonritz]

It was stolen, I don't see what is difficult here.

Was it in a safe, cuz in Oregon, someone must pay per SB554.

 

[American123]

Was it in a safe, cuz in Oregon, someone must pay per SB554.

We're talking 1930's and whether the NFA kept the mob from getting full auto guns.

 

[Jonnyuma]

Their manipulation of the public by the destruction and commandeering of the language would be laughable were it not so frightening.

The revolution will be complete when the language is perfect.

They're working on it.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

The revolution will be complete when the language is perfect.

They're working on it.

100%. Marx, Orwell, Foucault have been telling us this for decades.

 

[monkeybutler]

What did Foucault say about this?

 

[Hueco]

We're talking 1930's and whether the NFA kept the mob from getting full auto guns.

From all accounts that I've read, Capone et. al. were some of the few to own Tommy guns (due to the price) and likely picked them up legally before the NFA…though it stands to reason that he could afford both straw purchases or black market easily.

Bonnie and Clyde lifted their BAR from a National Guard armory.

George Kelly used a Tommy and likely acquired it through theft or purchase (pre NFA, the guy was an outlaw but did have some bootleg cash).

John Dillinger is known to have raided police arsenals.

All that being said, it's rather unimportant. The NFA came about due to the worst of the worst criminals using automatic weapons in highly publicized crimes. The price tag kept them out of the hands of Joe America and petty criminals. The NFA and the rule set around automatics has stopped the proliferation of them before they were cheap enough to get around.

And that's the point. Did the NFA keep the Mob from having autos? Of course not. Did the NFA keep average Americans from owning automatics up to and including almost a century later? Obviously. And that is why it is successful at accomplishing its task.

 

[RX-79G]

We're talking 1930's and whether the NFA kept the mob from getting full auto guns.

It is My understanding that no one has ever been murdered with a registered MG. There was a self defense case.

 

[RVTECH]

If the AR 15 is not a 'weapon of war' then why do so many refer to it as their 'main battle rifle'?

 

[uberguy]

The "Weapon of War" argument is simply nonsense, virtually every weapon type ever made has been a weapon of war at some point in time, from bow & arrows, to muzzle loaders, bolt-action rifles, revolvers, semi-auto rifles/handguns and full-select fire automatic weapons.

That issue boils down to the 'trigger' difference in an AR vs M4/M16 is how it's regulated under the NFA.

Pro 2nd Amendment supporters should really be focused on repealing the NFA, instead we constantly play reactive-defense in response to the 'death by a thousand cuts' approach that has been the hallmark of anti-gun bigots.

Every weapon can be lethal and from a legal perspective, 1 death is the same as 10 or more. Virtually every position the anti-gun crowd takes is based on evoking an emotional reaction by the uninformed, which is why facts, logic and the law (constitutional rights) have little to no impact on those delivering or receiving the emotional propaganda.

 

[American123]

It is My understanding that no one has ever been murdered with a registered MG. There was a self defense case.

That may be the case, but in order for anyone to be proven to be murdered with a registered MG, they would need to catch the gun that did it and match it up ballistically to the bullets that killed a guy, theoretically if we are talking about the mob back in the 30's, it's not like they were turning in their guns for inspection.

International trade made it further pointless anyway because guns coming from for example China, get funneled into the US, there was a California "anti-gun" politician who got busted for being part in that in the last 5-10 years.

 

[RX-79G]

That may be the case, but in order for anyone to be proven to be murdered with a registered MG, they would need to catch the gun that did it and match it up ballistically to the bullets that killed a guy, theoretically if we are talking about the mob back in the 30's, it's not like they were turning in their guns for inspection.

International trade made it further pointless anyway because guns coming from for example China, get funneled into the US, there was a California "anti-gun" politician who got busted for being part in that in the last 5-10 years.

Not sure what you're saying. Each gun is registered and can be inspected at will by the ATF. The registry closed in 1986.