Watching the fallout from the weather in Texas - lessons to be learned.

[HaveGun]

It's the hydrates and water in the 'field gas' (raw gas) that's a big part of the issue.
And ambient temps are used for the calculations for pipeline psi transfer to keep it from freezing even on a warm day. (Lower the pressure - the higher the gas/liquid temp and vice versa.) Kinda like how some propane devices on high will slow down half way through a tank and then you see how cold the remaining propane in the tank has become?

Drop a few transfer pumps out of this equation and pressure goes down just a bit combined with even colder ambient temps and voila.

Yep. Natural gas boils at -258 and propane boils at -44 degrees Fahrenheit. It's the boiling that produces the vapor, which is what gets burned. As the temperature drops, less vapor and pressure is produced. I've seen plenty of propane appliances stop working out here when the temps dip down in the negative teens since there isn't enough vapor and pressure being created in the system due to colder temps.

 

[40Garand]

I have family scattered around the current messy spots in Texas. I haven't heard them make a peep about the topic which leads me to think the media is blowing this all out of proportion. Looks like things are starting to thaw out now.

 

[Dinglenutz]

The home office is in San Antonio. Power has been out, servers down, ISP outages. I have co-workers who have been without power for 3+ days. No one is in mortal danger so far.

 

[The Heretic]

Yep. Natural gas boils at -258 and propane boils at -44 degrees Fahrenheit. It's the boiling that produces the vapor, which is what gets burned. As the temperature drops, less vapor and pressure is produced. I've seen plenty of propane appliances stop working out here when the temps dip down in the negative teens since there isn't enough vapor and pressure being created in the system due to colder temps.

With a 20# tank, if you use the propane fast enough, the tank will get too cold to have enough pressure - even in the summer.

That is why they have tank heaters.

 

[DirectDrive]

Texas Power Grid Failure
The way I've seen it reported is that Texas did not want to be part of the National Power Grid.
Where members share power in times of heavy demand.
Instead they wanted the DIY Power Grid where they (Texas) were their own backup.
Then when power demand skyrocketed statewide with the storm event, there was no backup.
Simply put, the Texas Power Grid managers got their pants pulled down.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Yep. Natural gas boils at -258 and propane boils at -44 degrees Fahrenheit. It's the boiling that produces the vapor, which is what gets burned. As the temperature drops, less vapor and pressure is produced. I've seen plenty of propane appliances stop working out here when the temps dip down in the negative teens since there isn't enough vapor and pressure being created in the system due to colder temps.

That's really interesting. I'll add an anecdote of my own.

When I lived in central Oregon the temperatures would often be well below freezing for months on end, in the negatives for weeks, and I was too far away from everything for such niceties as natural gas to be available. For heat I used wood and propane, the latter supplied by a 1000 gallon tank I placed out by the shop and piped into both the shop and the house. In all those years, in all those winters, I never had that propane fail to work. The coldest it got (that I remember) was a bit below -30, and the tank was exposed to sunlight.

I assume what you witnessed was due to the tank being cold AND small, such that the demand from it was a significant percentage of capacity. My running a little shop heat, hot water, gas cooktop, and so on from such a large tank probably had far less impact due to phase change cooling.

 

[Camelfilter]

Texas Power Grid Failure
The way I've seen it reported is that Texas did not want to be part of the National Power Grid.
Where members share power in times of heavy demand.
Instead they wanted the DIY Power Grid where they (Texas) were their own backup.
Then when power demand skyrocketed statewide with the storm event, there was no backup.
Simply put, the Texas Power Grid managers got their pants pulled down.

View attachment 830003

Likely regulators in DC want them to have there pants pulled down ALL THE TIME tho.

 

[Dinglenutz]

They should be highly regulated like the ultra-reliable CA power grid

 

[DirectDrive]

Likely regulators in DC want them to have there pants pulled down ALL THE TIME tho.

If you're not going to have a share power agreement, then you'd better know what you're doing.
They (Texas Power) apparently didn't know what they were doing.

Now they have gotten their object lesson and can see what they have to fix.
Expensive lesson in blood and treasure though.

 

[Camelfilter]

If you're not going to have a share power agreement, then you'd better know what you're doing.
They (Texas Power) apparently didn't know what they were doing.

Now they have gotten their object lesson and can see what they have to fix.
Expensive lesson in blood and treasure though.

Or they do know what they are doing, hedging 100 year type risks vs being taken advantage of annually...

 

[DirectDrive]

They should be highly regulated like the ultra-reliable CA power grid

They're over-populated.
Maybe they should go DIY Power Grid ?
That would take care of some of that population.
Northwest power keeps that place running.

 

[DirectDrive]

Or they do know what they are doing, hedging 100 year type risks vs being taken advantage of annually...

Lots of things work great on sunny days.
Prepare for the dark days however few they may be.

 

[DirectDrive]

I have people in Houston, Texas
It's almost like a Third World Country right now.

No power (at best a rolling blackout)
Uncle Tommy goes out to his car in shifts to get warm - neighbors are keeping an eye on him
Pipes bursting everywhere - plumbers are weeks out and local supplies are gone
My sister's brand new high school has severe water damage
Many Texas homes have water pipes running through attics (unheated space)
Ceilings are caving in as those pipes thaw
COVID vaccine sites have been converted to bottled water distribution points

A giant mess to clean up

 

[Mikej]

Then when power demand skyrocketed statewide with the storm event, there was no backup.
Simply put, the Texas Power Grid managers got their pants pulled down.

There should be a GIF for this. Perhaps a cartoon in a Texas news paper?

 

[Mikej]

That's really interesting. I'll add an anecdote of my own.

When I lived in central Oregon the temperatures would often be well below freezing for months on end, in the negatives for weeks, and I was too far away from everything for such niceties as natural gas to be available. For heat I used wood and propane, the latter supplied by a 1000 gallon tank I placed out by the shop and piped into both the shop and the house. In all those years, in all those winters, I never had that propane fail to work. The coldest it got (that I remember) was a bit below -30, and the tank was exposed to sunlight.

I assume what you witnessed was due to the tank being cold AND small, such that the demand from it was a significant percentage of capacity. My running a little shop heat, hot water, gas cooktop, and so on from such a large tank probably had far less impact due to phase change cooling.

I know my grill on the deck puts out way less heat when the temps are, say, below 40. And the tabletop grill that uses those Coleman green cans wouldn't even work in the 30's.

 

[Dinglenutz]

I know my grill on the deck puts out way less heat when the temps are, say, below 40.

MIne won't attain the same temperature but I have no way of easily measuring heat output. How do you measure BTU output in this scenario?

 

[Barefootdog]

6 pages so far.

Can it be fairly summarized that solar and wind power are not to be counted on in this kind of weather event in Texas.
Gas transmission needs to be hardened to operate in a wider range of temperature.
Gas generating plants have to be hardened to operate in a wider range of temperature.
Maybe they shouldn't have decommissioned coal fired plants serving the area.
And maybe producers shouldn't have to get permission from regulatory bodies to crank up power to meet demand.

The lunacy is just beginning.....Let No Crisis Go To Waste.
Watch the Greenies and Red Commie Dems manipulate this to turn Texas Blue.
Watch the out of state money flow into Dem controlled cities and Democrat election coffers.

A large bullseye has just been placed over Texas.

Note to Ted Cruz....You're not helping.

 

[308]

More likely grid controlled valving/pumps and such, vs secondary / backup LNG generators etc.

Grid down if grid controlled, LNG "frozen" as in nonfunctional...

Makes sense. I was curious about the term 'winterization' that was used when saying the LNG could freeze when in a perfect scenario there would easily be a +250 degree delta T

 

[Dinglenutz]

More likely grid controlled valving/pumps and such, vs secondary / backup LNG generators etc.

Grid down if grid controlled, LNG "frozen" as in nonfunctional...

That's what my co-workers say. Also the nuke went down for a similar reason, reportedly a safety sensor froze and the plant did an orderly auto-halt.

 

[Sandaholic]

6 pages so far.

Can it be fairly summarized that solar and wind power are not to be counted on in this kind of weather event in Texas.
Gas transmission needs to be hardened to operate in a wider range of temperature.
Gas generating plants have to be hardened to operate in a wider range of temperature.
Maybe they shouldn't have decommissioned coal fired plants serving the area.
And maybe producers shouldn't have to get permission from regulatory bodies to crank up power to meet demand.

The lunacy is just beginning.....Let No Crisis Waste.
Watch the Greenies and Commie Red Dems manipulate this to turn Texas Blue.

Succinct.