VRF14 12 Guage $299 plus $100 rebate!!!

[Lazyfaire]

They just want you to "beat it up" a little (the spring). was how it was explained to me haha
Pick mine up tomorrow. I expect a lighter spring to come with it as well. I'll update and let you know if it did

First thing I did was to NOT put on the BUIS, and put a laser under the muzzle on the pic rail

 

[jdubya]

First thing I did was to NOT put on the BUIS, and put a laser under the muzzle on the pic rail

That's my plan. I too, like my face as is, teeth intact

 

[Lazyfaire]

OK, here is the definitive answer from Armscor/Rock Island about putting a stock onto a VFR14 shotgun (firearm).
____________________________________

The reason why VRF14 is not getting a Tax Stamp is that, it is not registered as a shotgun, it is classified as Pistol Grip Firearm.

Adding a folding stock or any kind of stock can be possible but it will be an SBS which makes it Illegal as per the ruling of ATF.

Feel free to reply to this email if you have other questions or concerns.

Respectfully,

Ranil w/ Armscor Armscor Support Team m: (775) 537-1444 w: www.armscor.com e: [email protected]

 

[ilikegunspdx]

OK, here is the definitive answer from Armscor/Rock Island about putting a stock onto a VFR14 shotgun (firearm).
____________________________________

The reason why VRF14 is not getting a Tax Stamp is that, it is not registered as a shotgun, it is classified as Pistol Grip Firearm.

Adding a folding stock or any kind of stock can be possible but it will be an SBS which makes it Illegal as per the ruling of ATF.

Feel free to reply to this email if you have other questions or concerns.

Respectfully,

View attachment 1886545

Ranil w/ Armscor Armscor Support Team m: (775) 537-1444 w: www.armscor.com e: [email protected]

That sounds like it woudl be accurate if the final brace rule was in effect. But since the rule is enjoined in its entirety (including the part that superseded earlier rulings) this should no longer be accurate. I think this is old language from when the brace rule was in effect. If it went back into effect someday then it woudl apply.

See this old thread from when final brace rule was in effect for more info (especially posts #6 and #14):

ATF says that shockwave, komrad, and other AOW or "Firearm" shotguns are now short barreled shotguns if a brace is attached

Weird fallout of brace rule. Shotguns are outside the rule but when they reclassified braces they said that supersedes all previous rulings and that if you have an aow or firearm shotgun with a brace it is an sbs as of 1-31-2023. Weird gotcha that popel should be aware of. This came up...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[Lazyfaire]

That sounds like it woudl be accurate if the final brace rule was in effect. But since the rule is enjoined in its entirety (including the part that superseded earlier rulings) this should no longer be accurate. I think this is old language from when the brace rule was in effect. If it went back into effect someday then it woudl apply.

See this old thread from when final brace rule was in effect for more info (especially posts #6 and #14):

ATF says that shockwave, komrad, and other AOW or "Firearm" shotguns are now short barreled shotguns if a brace is attached

Weird fallout of brace rule. Shotguns are outside the rule but when they reclassified braces they said that supersedes all previous rulings and that if you have an aow or firearm shotgun with a brace it is an sbs as of 1-31-2023. Weird gotcha that popel should be aware of. This came up...

www.northwestfirearms.com

Can always be done down the road, for sure. But it could be a very expensive mistake to get called on it. I get it , but the ATF tries very hard to F us around. The next judge might vacate the last one. You be you tho

 

[Lazyfaire]

FYI, there is currently no $100 rebate being offered by Armscor on the VFR14.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Can always be done down the road, for sure. But it could be a very expensive mistake to get called on it. I get it , but the ATF tries very hard to F us around. The next judge might vacate the last one. You be you tho

If someone can show evidence of atf saying they are not ok outside of the "supersedes" problem created by the final brace rule that would be helpful. I haven't seen any. I suggest people listen to the audio directly from atf (references in my last post) and make your own decision.

But atf just makes up shiz as they go it seems. So even if someone is trying their absolute best to comply with the law, ATF's interpretation changes a lot. They flip flopped on braces a total of 4 times, called a shoelace a machine gun (then years later reversed their position), and confiscated airsoft toy guns bevcause they said they are machine guns:

View: https://youtu.be/Rk8-ePGqBmM?si=vZpx27Ip6k1Rruz8

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I noticed that Komrad's are being sold with braces now:

 

[kmk1012]

FYI, there is currently no $100 rebate being offered by Armscor on the VFR14.

You are correct, I created this thread in November of 2022. Who would have thought it'd still be going after all this time

 

[jdubya]

OK, here is the definitive answer from Armscor/Rock Island about putting a stock onto a VFR14 shotgun (firearm).
____________________________________

The reason why VRF14 is not getting a Tax Stamp is that, it is not registered as a shotgun, it is classified as Pistol Grip Firearm.

Adding a folding stock or any kind of stock can be possible but it will be an SBS which makes it Illegal as per the ruling of ATF.

Feel free to reply to this email if you have other questions or concerns.

Respectfully,

View attachment 1886545

Ranil w/ Armscor Armscor Support Team m: (775) 537-1444 w: www.armscor.com e: [email protected]

I'll go with that. I don't like surprise visitors in that regard.

 

[jdubya]

That sounds like it woudl be accurate if the final brace rule was in effect. But since the rule is enjoined in its entirety (including the part that superseded earlier rulings) this should no longer be accurate. I think this is old language from when the brace rule was in effect. If it went back into effect someday then it woudl apply.

See this old thread from when final brace rule was in effect for more info (especially posts #6 and #14):

ATF says that shockwave, komrad, and other AOW or "Firearm" shotguns are now short barreled shotguns if a brace is attached

Weird fallout of brace rule. Shotguns are outside the rule but when they reclassified braces they said that supersedes all previous rulings and that if you have an aow or firearm shotgun with a brace it is an sbs as of 1-31-2023. Weird gotcha that popel should be aware of. This came up...

www.northwestfirearms.com

Just picked it up. One spring. Two pistons , light load installed. One 5 round mag and this

 

[The Heretic]

OK, here is the definitive answer from Armscor/Rock Island about putting a stock onto a VFR14 shotgun (firearm).
____________________________________

The reason why VRF14 is not getting a Tax Stamp is that, it is not registered as a shotgun, it is classified as Pistol Grip Firearm.

Adding a folding stock or any kind of stock can be possible but it will be an SBS which makes it Illegal as per the ruling of ATF.

Feel free to reply to this email if you have other questions or concerns.

Respectfully,

View attachment 1886545

Ranil w/ Armscor Armscor Support Team m: (775) 537-1444 w: www.armscor.com e: [email protected]

Just to be pedantic - it is legally a "firearm" - not a "pistol grip firearm". If it remains longer than 26", and it does not have a buttstock or "stock", it legally remains a "firearm" whether it has a pistol grip or a raptor grip or whatever grip. That includes "braces" (that are classified as "braces" and not a "stock" by the ATF) and a brace can "fold" as long as when it is folded, the firearm remains longer than 26 inches OAL.

As far as I understand, braces on these types of firearms are not subject to the "pistol brace" ruling - whether there is an injunction or not.

Again, ask a competent lawyer knowledgeable about the subject if you want to be sure.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Just to be pedantic - it is legally a "firearm" - not a "pistol grip firearm". If it remains longer than 26", and it does not have a buttstock or "stock", it legally remains a "firearm" whether it has a pistol grip or a raptor grip or whatever grip. That includes "braces" (that are classified as "braces" and not a "stock" by the ATF) and a brace can "fold" as long as when it is folded, the firearm remains longer than 26 inches OAL.

As far as I understand, braces on these types of firearms are not subject to the "pistol brace" ruling - whether there is an injunction or not.

Again, ask a competent lawyer knowledgeable about the subject if you want to be sure.

The addition of the stock changed the designation to a SBS which still requires a stamp. I doubt the ATF will agree with you that it would fall under the 'brace rule'. They will see an SBS.

Not a hill that I would wish to die on.

 

[The Heretic]

The addition of the stock changed the designation to a SBS which still requires a stamp. I doubt the ATF will agree with you that it would fall under the 'brace rule'. They will see an SBS.

Not a hill that I would wish to die on.

There is a difference between a stock and a "brace".

I have no doubt the ATF and the current regime wants to rule braces as stocks - but the question is whether the brace ruling actually includes "firearms" such as the VRF. I would say it does not - but then I am not a lawyer.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Just to be pedantic - it is legally a "firearm" - not a "pistol grip firearm". If it remains longer than 26", and it does not have a buttstock or "stock", it legally remains a "firearm" whether it has a pistol grip or a raptor grip or whatever grip. That includes "braces" (that are classified as "braces" and not a "stock" by the ATF) and a brace can "fold" as long as when it is folded, the firearm remains longer than 26 inches OAL.

As far as I understand, braces on these types of firearms are not subject to the "pistol brace" ruling - whether there is an injunction or not.

Again, ask a competent lawyer knowledgeable about the subject if you want to be sure.

Correct on all points. Even the term "pistol grip firearm" seems to be defined in and only applicable within the context of an ACTIVE final brace rule. Since the rule is enjoined in its entirety we default back to the way things were before there was ever a brace rule. And imo what you are saying is spot on.

But reading that manual posted above it seems this gun may be less than 26" overall vs shockwave and komrad etc are specifically made to be over 26" (and thus avoid the need for a SBS stamp).

If I owned one of these I would measure overall length. If a bit short perhaps a short pin and weld muzzle attachment would fix the issue. I wonder if a pin and welded muzzle brake would count. Those things are amazing. 50-70% reduction in recoil for 12 gauge and would be worth the cost for sure if it both reduced recoil and allowed a brace to be used whereas otherwise it couldn't. I'm not saying a brace couldn't be used otherwise, only "if" it couldn't be used otherwise.

Also I wonder if a folding adapter is added if that would be enough. Don't know on that one. I would have to listen closely to those parts of the atf training I mentioned above and see if I could get an answer as to how to measure overall length for this gun. Could also check komrad's overal length on website for reference since they sell theirs with a brace.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

There is a difference between a stock and a "brace".

I have no doubt the ATF and the current regime wants to rule braces as stocks - but the question is whether the brace ruling actually includes "firearms" such as the VRF. I would say it does not - but then I am not a lawyer.

Brace ruling is completely irrelevant now. It's as if it never existed because it's permanently enjoined for the whole USA.

 

[The Heretic]

If I owned one of these I would measure overall length. If a bit short perhaps a short pin and weld muzzle attachment would fix the issue. I wonder if a pin and welded muzzle brake would count. Those things are amazing. 50-70% reduction in recoil for 12 gauge.

I am sure the pin/"weld" would count as contributing to the OAL.

I have considered doing that to my Shockwave - not because it is shorter than 26" (it is not), but if I decide to use a different grip, then I don't have to be concerned about the grip being shorter than the raptor grip that came with the firearm and I have been thinking about a muzzle device anyway.

 

[The Heretic]

Brace ruling is completely irrelevant now. It's as if it never existed because it's permanently enjoined for the whole USA.

Nothing is permanent in the realm of gun control. Congress can still pass laws. States can still pass laws.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Nothing is permanent in the realm of gun control. Congress can still pass laws. States can still pass laws.

Yep but for ATF to reinstate the specific element we are concerned with here "supersedes all previous rulings", that doesn't apply and they would have to draft a whole new messy brace rule to try to do it (which could happen). Either way we have to do what we want to do within current existing laws, and then adapt (temporarily or permanently) if they pull more BS "laws" out of their A$$.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I am sure the pin/"weld" would count as contributing to the OAL.

I have considered doing that to my Shockwave - not because it is shorter than 26" (it is not), but if I decide to use a different grip, then I don't have to be concerned about the grip being shorter than the raptor grip that came with the firearm and I have been thinking about a muzzle device anyway.

The muzzle brakes are totally worth it. Most people are ignorant of them. I can shoot accurately at rate of fire of 300 rounds per minute (same as an AR shooting fast) with my Ak 12 gauge (lynx 12). No way in hades could I do that without the brake. It really is a 50-70% reduction. Gk-01 brake (haven't tried gk-02 or gk-03) is my favorite but v6 brake is pretty good also. SDS gk-01 clone is $60ish but is pretty heavy.

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• ilikegunspdx
• Feb 25, 2024