Training in Couples tactics

[huzar]

If you're looking for more reading on some of these things, then in addition to the Marc MacYoung books you read, and to "Violence of Mind" as recommended to you by @Cerberus Group , I can wholeheartedly recommend the books of Rory Miller -- "Facing Violence", "Conflict Communications", and others. MacYoung refers to his writings frequently. Rory used to do trainings in this space as well, but has now retired. He might be able to point you at other resouces to get similar training, however.

Also, a little further north of you (Olympia area, I think?) you have Masters of Mayhem (https://mastersofmayhem.info/). Don't know how they will resume their training schedule post-Covid, but something to keep an eye on maybe?

Finally, something like the Massad Ayoob Group's MAG--40 class would touch on a bunch of this material. Mass was just up here in WA last month, and will be back next year to teach MAG-40 (and MAG-80) again. He's 73 or 74 these days -- I'm sure he'd have lots of insight into the problem space.

 

[edzz]

It looks like in your area The Cognitive Defender group may have what your looking for. I have no experience with them, but it looks like they have some classes that may work. May be worth reaching out to them.

Please when possible discuss your expectations with the actual instructor of the classes prior to committing to / attending. View a session of the course being taught if possible.

Locally it's not uncommon for the person taking your money for a class to know nothing about what the classes entail.

My wife signed up / paid for a local basic pistol course and due to a scheduling conflict could not attend so I took her place. Turned out all the other attendees were prepared for a mall ninja class, tactical drop rig holsters enough loaded magazines for the course (and then some) I showed up with an edc S&W Shield 9mm, 1 spare magazine and an owb holster as required rather than my normal iwb. While I had no problems other than delaying things as I reload my magazines my wife would not have been happy. I was just happy I hadn't shown up with one of my 5 shot .38's.

The same place runs (you'll see what I mean) a precision rifle class that a friend attended. The class should have been sold as a basic sniper class (the instructor is a former army sniper). My friend and his buddy (both in their 60's) were not expecting the sprints to the shooting positions, etc..

So... enough of my rant.

Also look for the NRA "Refuse to be a victim" course this is a non shooting course my wife signed us up for that presents many basic concepts (that I've been trying to get across to her for years) of personal / home safety. This is a good course for the entire family and is especially important for the "adult" leaving home for collage. I no longer get the "your just being paranoid" line from her.

 

[OldBroad44]

Both people need to avoid becoming hostages.

Stay out of each others line of fire. If you and partner separate and get on opposite sides of a bad guy, make sure its not directly opposite so that a bullet shot at bad guy if it passes through does not hit partner.

Decide ahead of time who is in charge in various kinds of emergencies. (Medical vs physical attack for example.) Who has the most training or knows the most about that kind of emergency. Who thinks faster and more competently in emergencies? If one of the pair tends to fall apart in emergencies, the other must be in charge. And the person who falls apart in emergencies must learn to simply obey the other in emergencies.

A man who goes off to p by himself let alone fish downstream 200 yards cannot adequately protect his partner from being abducted or turned into a hostage. Women/partners need their own guns when camping or hiking or fishing. And they need to carry them exactly as if they were alone. Not goof off in the carrying department when the armed partner is present.

 

[localbrew]

To the OP: if you're following those practices you already have a good start. As a lot of others have stated here, situation awareness is key. Have a plan before you go out, practice that plan, over and over again, run different scenarios. You both have CHL's, but do you practice drawing from concealment? You should be, even just dry firing (safely) with dummy rounds, practice reloading. If it gets to that point though a lot has already gone wrong. Amazon sells personal alarms that you can carry in your pocket or your wife's purse. If you are feeling uneasy about something trigger the alarm, usually the attention will be enough to change the course of action. "Escape the Wolf" by Clint Emerson is a great book, he has other books as well that can give you tips on evading certain situations or how to respond to them. Communication is critical as others have also stated, one of you needs to dial 911 and keep it on speaker. Massad Ayoob has some great books as well. You should also know the laws around the use of force, deadly force, disparity of force etc. John Lovell has some really good training courses around defensive shooting and tactics. Some things to remember, you want to blend in, try not to stand out, be the grey man, when walking around corners in cities, don't cut corners, take wide turns so you're not surprised by anything hiding around corners. The biggest take away have a plan, know your exits, know where you are, street names, etc. then just train, train shooting, train drawing from concealment etc. Again, by not doing the stupid stuff, stupid people do, you're already ahead of the game.

 

[Librarian]

Both people need to avoid becoming hostages.

Stay out of each others line of fire. If you and partner separate and get on opposite sides of a bad guy, make sure its not directly opposite so that a bullet shot at bad guy if it passes through does not hit partner.

Decide ahead of time who is in charge in various kinds of emergencies. (Medical vs physical attack for example.) Who has the most training or knows the most about that kind of emergency. Who thinks faster and more competently in emergencies? If one of the pair tends to fall apart in emergencies, the other must be in charge. And the person who falls apart in emergencies must learn to simply obey the other in emergencies.

A man who goes off to p by himself let alone fish downstream 200 yards cannot adequately protect his partner from being abducted or turned into a hostage. Women/partners need their own guns when camping or hiking or fishing. And they need to carry them exactly as if they were alone. Not goof off in the carrying department when the armed partner is present.

Good thoughts; happens I'm a retired RN, so medical is my bailiwick. Unfortunately, dragging an IFAK or blowout kit out to dinner is kind of excessive. In the car, sure. (but those are just large enough to attract car burglars; have not yet solved that.)

We're not all that outdoorsy, but same caution applies to shopping trips.

"If you and partner separate and get on opposite sides of a bad guy..." yes, and also potentially divides the attention of the Bad Guy.

 

[Librarian]

Already have Left of Bang; grabbed 3 Rory Miller books this evening
- Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training
- Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected
- Living in the Deep Brain: Connecting with your Intuition

"NRA "Refuse to be a victim" course this is a non shooting course my wife signed us up for that presents many basic concepts (that I've been trying to get across to her for years) of personal / home safety. This is a good course for the entire family and is especially important for the "adult" leaving home for collage. I no longer get the "your just being paranoid" line from her." - edzz

Sounds pretty good; I'm getting somewhat less of the 'paranoia' response, but it's easier if she hears it from someone else.

"Escape the Wolf" by Clint Emerson is a great book,

I have Emerson's 100 Deadly Skills, but 'Wolf' goes on the shopping list - $120 paperback, out of print, used book stores are old friends.

 

[localbrew]

Emerson is releasing a new version of "Wolf" that's why I think the 1st version is fetching a premium.

 

[oremike]

With me and my wife it would be something like me yelling choot'em, choot'em, choot'em, oh never mind give me the gun I'll choot'em myself.

 

[titsonritz]

Had a little run in with a homeless man this morning while walking the dog. He picked a perfect spot to victimize someone with no witness able to see him.

That's a two way street.

 

[huzar]

Already have Left of Bang; grabbed 3 Rory Miller books this evening
- Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training
- Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected
- Living in the Deep Brain: Connecting with your Intuition

If you like what you see with those three, definitely check out his "Conflict Communications", "Training for Sudden Violence: 72 Practical Drills" and "Principles-based Instruction for Self-Defense (and maybe life)". Those last two are good, but I'm still working through them. That first one is an excellent read that focuses on the emotional and mental game that will hopefully let you recognize your (and others') behaviors and take steps to avoid confrontation in the first place.

 

[OldBroad44]

Here's an example of a medical emergency.

My mother's background included a zoology BS plus coursework in bacterialogy and medical lab technician training. During WWII at one point she worked as a medical technician as well as trained medics for the military.

At the time of this story, 1958, Mother was a full time homemaker. Our home was on a USAF base in Tokyo. I was about 12 and my brother was about six. We were all in the front yard. The neighbor lady across the street was mowing her lawn. Unfortunately, she tried to clear a grass jam without turning off the engine. She cut one finger clean off. She screamed.

In response to the scream, Mother looked at me and, in a command voice, said, "Take care of your brother!" Then she ran across the street, showed the woman how to hold her fingers on the damaged finger to cut off the arterial blood spurt, and got woman sitting in the passengers seat of her own car, which was just a few feet away in the driveway. Then Mother searched grass and found the finger. Ordered lady to hold finger tightly on stub and arranged it so that some blood circulation to finger was restored. Then Mother drove lady to base hospital. The finger was reattached and after it healed, full function of finger was restored.

Afterwards, when Mother got home, she acted no different from if she had just gone for groceries. She said the hardest part of the whole thing was driving the woman's car. That was the first time Mother had ever driven a stick shift.

 

[bbbass]

OP, I would include in the Rules of Stupid:

"At Stupid times"

Many people are around in the wee hours of the morning when they don't really need to be. Such as taking a walk, going to the gas/deli station for smokes or a snack, gassing up the car on the way back from closing time at the bar, etc.

Being in transitional spaces during those times breaks at least two of the Four Rules of Stupid - modified.

 

[bbbass]

Theroretically, where the OP is facing a individual who, tho empty handed, assumes a combatives stance (think boxing or another martial art), advances, and verbally challenges and threatens the OP. Absent that person being 6'5", 270 unlike the typical teen/young adult street thug the OP drawing, pointing or firing likely would not be seen as justified. Since the OP raised the issue with him and his spouse involved, presumably and as part of their pre-planning one of them would be able to maintain a deadly force option.

Not being myself a Use of Force specialist, I would think in Cottage Grove jurisdiction a Senior Citizen could articulate a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from a street thug or homeless teen or young adult based on age difference alone.

I pretty much know that I'm too old/decrepit/injured/arthritic/outofshape to go hands on with a youngun. I carry pepper spray to bless the deserving unarmed person with the hot sauce, but if that don't work, it will be the aggressor's choice as to how the encounter ends. I won't let them hurt me or the wife. At 71, a serious injury can be a permanent change of life.

 

[Librarian]

OP, I would include in the Rules of Stupid:

"At Stupid times"

Many people are around in the wee hours of the morning when then don't really need to be. Such as taking a walk, going to the gas/deli station for smokes or a snack, gassing up the car on the way back from closing time at the bar, etc.

Being in transitional spaces during those times breaks at least two of the Four Rules of Stupid - modified.

Quite true. I had forgotten - we're seldom out after 10P or before 8A.

But Marc MacYoung also notes 'shift change' behavior - one example was a fair or something, where families with children were enjoying the place, and then around dinner time they all left, being replaced by groups of younger people. Parents saw it, and recognized it. After 'shift change' became a stupid time, even though place/people/things to do had been fine, up to that point.

 

[Librarian]

Not being myself a Use of Force specialist, I would think in Cottage Grove jurisdiction a Senior Citizen could articulate a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from a street thug or homeless teen or young adult based on age difference alone.

I pretty much know that I'm too old/decrepit/injured/arthritic/outofshape to go hands on with a youngun. I carry pepper spray to bless the deserving unarmed person with the hot sauce, but if that don't work, it will be the aggressor's choice as to how the encounter ends. I won't let them hurt me or the wife. At 71, a serious injury can be a permanent change of life.

My reasoning exactly.

I hope not to test the theory.

 

[bbbass]

Quite true. I had forgotten - we're seldom out after 10P or before 8A.

But Marc MacYoung also notes 'shift change' behavior - one example was a fair or something, where families with children were enjoying the place, and then around dinner time they all left, being replaced by groups of younger people. Parents saw it, and recognized it. After 'shift change' became a stupid time, even though place/people/things to do had been fine, up to that point.

A bit off topic if you will indulge:

Sounds like when my wife and I used to enjoy CW dancing. We would go to one of the two places in town where they had live music and a small(ish) dance floor (the other being the Fraternal Order of Eagles hall, FOE, that had cheap drinks, a huge dance floor, and lousy bands) at about 8pm, which is purty durn early to go dancin. At about 10pm, the younger crowd that likes hop-n-jump dancing would start coming in... and the next set would change from CW music to rock. That's when we left to to the Eagle's or just went home. But sometimes it was fun to watch the young kids jump around and the young gals pet themselves like they were in some lame music vid, at least until some young guy got surly for no apparent reason other than they don't like old folks hangin around.

That said, neither of us has the balance to dance anymore, and I'm not supposed to drink due to high triglycerides having given me fatty liver disease.... life shore gets teejus don't it?

 

[Librarian]

Earlier I mentioned I had email to Sheriff Jim Wilson of NRA pubs; got his reply a bit ago.

He recommends Gunsite and Thunder Ranch, and The Firearms Academy of Seattle. They do seem to have something - John Murphy: Concealed Carry Street Encounter Skills and Tactics

Murphy seems to be a visiting instructor (from northern VA) so I don't know how often he might be out here.

 

[SKN]

Not being myself a Use of Force specialist, I would think in Cottage Grove jurisdiction a Senior Citizen could articulate a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from a street thug or homeless teen or young adult based on age difference alone.

I pretty much know that I'm too old/decrepit/injured/arthritic/outofshape to go hands on with a youngun. I carry pepper spray to bless the deserving unarmed person with the hot sauce, but if that don't work, it will be the aggressor's choice as to how the encounter ends. I won't let them hurt me or the wife. At 71, a serious injury can be a permanent change of life.

I don't think I'd rely on the good graces of a DA or the sympathy of members of a grand jury to exonerate you of any and all criminal or civil liability, nor the personal trauma of putting rounds on a 15yr old HS skinny who at the time looked 25 when they raised their hands and shoved you as they insulted you and shouted "I'm going to kick your bubblegum grandpa!". Hence, if avoidance is not possible or practical I have intermediate force options. If it's a POC expect a lot of negative response from their community and not just locally.

 

[bbbass]

I don't think I'd rely on the good graces of a DA or the sympathy of members of a grand jury to exonerate you of any and all criminal or civil liability, nor the personal trauma of putting rounds on a 15yr old HS skinny who at the time looked 25 when they raised their hands and shoved you as they insulted you and shouted "I'm going to kick your bubblegum grandpa!". Hence, if avoidance is not possible or practical I have intermediate force options. If it's a POC expect a lot of negative response from their community and not just locally.

Yeah well, in Keizer I wouldn't either, but then I don't nor wouldn't live there. We're talking Cottage Grove... ever been there, lived there???

Edit: So now you've clarified that it's a 15yr old HS skinny that looks 25. I'm not sure I'd be intimidated by a skinny no matter what age.

Did you read the part that said I carry pepper spray? It happens to be POM, but OP said he carries Fox 5.3, another type of SD spray. What is the other option... RunFu? Probably not since neither of us can run.

What are your intermediate force options? I will likely tell you why they won't work for everybody, but good discussion anyway.

 

[bbbass]

This discussion makes me wish I could afford carry insurance.