Training in Couples tactics

[Librarian]

What I'm looking for is training for couple's tactics 'on the street', with emphasis on awareness, communication, and cooperative actions before any 'combat phase'. The goal is Claude Werner's 'break contact'. But if things become an unavoidable confrontation, we need to work together.

We're both 71, and both have OR CHL.

We've lived in safe, secure middle-class homes and neighborhoods all of our lives; not complaining about that, but 'street smarts' simply never happened, and we need to improve that.

We already practice the 3 'stupid' rules:
- Don't go to stupid places
- Don't hang with stupid people
- Don't do stupid things
so we do not go to protests/demonstrations (not, at least, the ones common to 2020s Oregon), we don't go to bars (cheaper to drink better stuff at home, anyway), we do not go to 'bad' parts of town.

We have the concept and intent of 'avoidance' in place, but, anecdotally, it does not always work, and we're too old to run away. We could manage 'brisk walking', if at least one of us could recognize We May Have A Problem.

Does anyone know classes we might take? Or, books/articles to read? I already read Marc MacYoung, but that is not systematized enough to train with. Jim Wilson at the NRA magazines has several good articles, but again, no training plan. (I have sent an email to him.)

I already know about Gunsite; their class has a shooting class pre-requisite. The cost is a manageable issue, but 2 weeks in Arizona looks pretty grim. I have the impression that GS is usually more athletic than I can handle these days; they do occasionally offer shooting classes for us older folk, less physically ambitious.

Similar conditions with Front Sight, except Nevada not Arizona.

Thunder Ranch at least one time had a class that might suit, but no sessions are offered through next January; and, while I think Clint Smith is kind of a funny guy, my wife would turn him off in a heartbeat.

Other, similar things seem to be available in Ohio and Maryland, but those are kind of out of the way.

Thanks for any info you might have.

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[Certaindeaf]

Weapon retention and weaponless defense are good skillsets for anybody.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I can't give you any names or organizations that can give you what you want. Being old myself I would love to exchange ideas an opinions. However if you just want info I will say welcome to NWFA and move along.

 

[ma96782]

Story Time.

My GF and I were walking towards the entrance of WinCo (in Portlandia). It was night and I was accosted by some aggressive homeless panhandler/scum in the parking lot.

Yeah.....they seem to like it there (and Fred Meyers) because the management seems to be lax about them bothering the partons.

So then anyway.....sensing an escalation of trouble from him. I instructed my GF to go to the office and have management call 911.

She asked.......Why?

Rrrright.......some people don't see stuff coming until it hits them in the face. Do I really have to explain to my GF, the escalation here?

Rrrrright.....
I had to repeat my instructions to the GF several times. While keeping an eye on the guy. When she finally started off to go inside. At that point......the guy decided to beat feet. Yeah, I can't remember how many times I had to repeat the request/instruction to her.

BTW.....she never made the call to 911. Instead, I got a manager-type person from the store.

Security.....won't/don't do stuff anymore (and it's their job). So really.....what do you suppose a manager-type person will do?

OMG. YES. It's a good idea to have your significant other clued into possible trouble/danger signs. Maybe a "code" red or orange word (whatever)?

Aloha, Mark

PS.......she is now an Ex-GF.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Had a little run in with a homeless man this morning while walking the dog. He picked a perfect spot to victimize someone with no witness able to see him.

 

[66PonyCar]

Security.....won't/don't do stuff anymore (and it's their job). So really.....what do you suppose a manager-type person will do?

Yeah, reminds me of this commercial.

 

[Librarian]

We have at least negotiated one bit of communication protocol - if one of us addresses the other by middle name, that's a sign 'we have trouble and no time for discussion - MOVE!'

 

[Longwalkhome]

I will move along.

Good luck

 

[American123]

At 71 you probably won't be out running or physically overpowering anyone. The option at that point is to outsmart them or avoid them altogether.

There's a lot of benefit in simply talking through potential scenarios. But you have to be very deliberate, detailed and realistic in who/what/when/where/how for it to be be beneficial as training.

Forcing people to think through things before they are in the situation itself is what can help prepare them to respond better than they might be while in relative shock during a stressful encounter.

 

[No_Regerts]

Might not be too late for this couple's program:

 

[Member 34319]

71, I'm gonna wait till they come to me, shoot what I can, miss what I couldn't, if I get shot, 70 years ain't horrible!

Ive got no classes to add, but I'd think @Cerberus Group might be someone to reach out to.

 

[SKN]

I'm 70 and have carried a firearm professionally and personally since age 18. At my age, tho relatively fit owing to strength and cardio workouts 5 days a week, I have no interest or inclination to get in to a "hands on" confrontation with anyone but can't count on avoidance in all circumstances and conditions. I believe that you have the right attitude in exercising your 3S approach so it really boils down to practicing all around situational awareness and, if you haven't already, complementing your personal carriage of a firearm and cell phone with alternative force options: high intensity illumination tool, direct stream chemical agent spray, and/or a projector type taser. You should already have discussed and practiced with your spouse ideas about what to do and who should do it in a potential confrontation with single and multiple adversaries in a public venue. I do know that Clackamas Public Safety Center lists a "Tandems" class for both partners being armed and when one of them is not. I believe this class still has a gun handling and shooting pre-requisite and it's taught by Gabe White a very accomplished, knowledgeable, and sensible instructor.

 

[WillametteWill]

We have at least negotiated one bit of communication protocol - if one of us addresses the other by middle name, that's a sign 'we have trouble and no time for discussion - MOVE!'

Exact same one my bride and I use. The danger is her middle name is the first name of my (very long ago) Ex, so I have to use it cautiously.

To the OP, one thing we do is train together at classes, at the range and have discussions about the "what if" scenarios. We are actually in a class this weekend that has more combative skills than we have been doing. I'm guessing there are some in their 60's in the class but you have be willing to get tossed on the mats...good times. The Gunsite team tactics is on our list (we have been their together a few times already). I think discussing and working out scenarios safely in your home can be extremely valuable (i.e. what would you do in a home invasion and physically make the movements, several times.)

Good luck in this very well thought out quest.

 

[American123]

I'm 70 and have carried a firearm professionally and personally since age 18. At my age, tho relatively fit owing to strength and cardio workouts 5 days a week, I have no interest or inclination to get in to a "hands on" confrontation with anyone but can't count on avoidance in all circumstances and conditions. I believe that you have the right attitude in exercising your 3S approach so it really boils down to practicing all around situational awareness and, if you haven't already, complementing your personal carriage of a firearm and cell phone with alternative force options: high intensity illumination tool, direct stream chemical agent spray, and/or a projector type taser. You should already have discussed and practiced with your spouse ideas about what to do and who should do it in a potential confrontation with single and multiple adversaries in a public venue. I do know that Clackamas Public Safety Center lists a "Tandems" class for both partners being armed and when one of them is not. I believe this class still has a gun handling and shooting pre-requisite and it's taught by Gabe White a very accomplished, knowledgeable, and sensible instructor.

Regarding the taser, in what theoretical scenario as a civilian would he be justified in using the projector type taser that he wouldn't also be justified in using his firearm? Considering the failure rate of tasers and how often a taser is used with backup ready to use lethal force just in case if necessary.

 

[StacattoP]

Definitely Steve from @Cerberus Group

 

[SKN]

Regarding the taser, in what theoretical scenario as a civilian would he be justified in using the projector type taser that he wouldn't also be justified in using his firearm? Considering the failure rate of tasers and how often a taser is used with backup ready to use lethal force just in case if necessary.

Theroretically, where the OP is facing a individual who, tho empty handed, assumes a combatives stance (think boxing or another martial art), advances, and verbally challenges and threatens the OP. Absent that person being 6'5", 270 unlike the typical teen/young adult street thug the OP drawing, pointing or firing likely would not be seen as justified. Since the OP raised the issue with him and his spouse involved, presumably and as part of their pre-planning one of them would be able to maintain a deadly force option.

 

[Librarian]

I'm 70 and have carried a firearm professionally and personally since age 18. At my age, tho relatively fit owing to strength and cardio workouts 5 days a week, I have no interest or inclination to get in to a "hands on" confrontation with anyone but can't count on avoidance in all circumstances and conditions. I believe that you have the right attitude in exercising your 3S approach so it really boils down to practicing all around situational awareness and, if you haven't already, complementing your personal carriage of a firearm and cell phone with alternative force options: high intensity illumination tool, direct stream chemical agent spray, and/or a projector type taser. You should already have discussed and practiced with your spouse ideas about what to do and who should do it in a potential confrontation with single and multiple adversaries in a public venue. I do know that Clackamas Public Safety Center lists a "Tandems" class for both partners being armed and when one of them is not. I believe this class still has a gun handling and shooting pre-requisite and it's taught by Gabe White a very accomplished, knowledgeable, and sensible instructor.

Ahh, "Clackamas Public Safety Center lists a "Tandems" class" - https://web3.clackamas.us/pstc/detail/?pk=63. That looks very interesting. No current schedule for it; pre-req class pst102 on 9/4 and 9/5 - we can't make those dates, other stuff planned already, but at least I can watch for next sessions. Thank you very much!

They insist students buy ammo from them; I wonder what that costs; classes themselves are very reasonable. Under 3 hours to drive, so overnight stays required, not a problem.

Yes, my EDC gun has a light, I carry a brighter Klarus light, and Fox 5.3 lives in my pocket.

Though we are both well out of practice, we each do have MA training - but closing with a younger opponent is not my favorite idea!

 

[ma96782]

This is a fake situation. It is NOT intended to be legal advice. Nor is it. Hell, you do what you do. I'm just pointing out absurdity by being absurd.

So, the scenario goes.......

"Gimme your money/wallet" is no longer a demand/assumption that you're being mugged/robbed.

Rrrright....because to a liberal DA it's a request for a donation. Note that no threat of injury or bodily harm was even expressed.

Yeah. Read the statute to be clear about what ROBBERY is (laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction).

So in that case.....
One should respond. "Sir, what do you intend to do, if I don't hand it over?"

His response may likely be, "F@#^ing ______ hand it over or I'll kill you (or some other descriptive terminology describing grievous bodily injury/harm meant to get your compliance)."

At that point.....you are probably in fear of your life/serious bodily injury/harm. And if that is the case. The appropriate response would be/could be/might just be......."Bang, Bang, and maybe even Bang again."

Oh for F sake. Read the first two lines again.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Cerberus Group]

I appreciate the recommendations.

A couple of books come to mind...Left of Bang by Horne and Riley, and Violence of Mind by Varg Freeborn.

Team tactics can be as simple or as complicated as one wants. If one doesn't stay working on it, then the former is the way to go...also easier on the brain when it's in action finding training files to execute.

Although I don't have anything on the schedule that addresses such a request, I have a few groups that train regularly here, with each time having specific things to work on.

The best advice I can give is once you decide on a training facility, practice those items presented so it becomes part of your daily operations.

I'm available anytime to help out and give guidance...no charge.

 

[Certaindeaf]

This is your only alternative.