National Trade stronger BGC for national concealed carry?

[cigars]

Read between the lines on this. Trump is getting boxed in with gun bills in the new session that's starting. All of the gun grabbing leftists and RINO's are demanding action from him because of the recent shootings and the need to virtue signal. This seems like a way for him to shoot between the cracks. They want stronger and national BGC's? Fine. Then if someone goes through that then they also get the right to carry nation wide since they have already been federally cleared. Obviously the bad guys won't be able to pass such a BGC so in the Dem's eyes that should be adequate to stop crime to zero.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/019/09/09/pollak-trade-universal-background-checks-for-universal-concealed-carry/

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[Diamondback]

Define "stronger BGC." If it means actually ENFORCING the requirement that PP's be put into NICS with penalties for failure to enter the prohibiting judgments into the system, okay. If it means "backdoor registration," go choke out on a Bubblegum.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[The Heretic]

It's not fine.

Federal BGCs are a backdoor to confiscation. In fact, they are a prerequisite to confiscation, and the anti-gunners know it. Once there is no longer any way to legally transfer a firearm without a BGC, then they have us over a barrel. You will no longer have plausible deniability; you will no longer be able to say that you sold all your firearms to someone in another state - or if you currently live in a 'free state' you won't be able to say that any longer in that state.

Once they have that, then they have you locked in - no more buying or selling guns "off the books" legally. Then you either buy or sell guns legally, or your are stuck with what you have "off the books", and/or you sell what you have "on the books". At which point, when they come around knocking on doors you have a choice - give up what they know you have, or fight or go to prison when they find what you tried to hide.

Once you are locked in, no more buying specific gun parts and accessories for your off the book guns, or for any gun you are going to claim to not have. Same for ammo. Can't very well claim that you don't have a Glock that shoots .40 S&W if you keep buying mags for it, ammo for it, recoil springs for it, etc. - won't look good in court. And forget about innocent until proven guilty - they already put people in prison with less evidence than that.

 

[Member 5605]

View attachment 615925

We don't always agree but we do agree on this

 

[Tomahawk67]

Nope

 

[shibbershabber]

Geeeeee who woulda thought... a compromise? Instead of just grabbing our ankles every time....

Ive floated the idea before. I dont like it at all. I think its all bubblegum.

I have a right to own any small arms I wish and that should never be dependent on the behavior of others.

however, if that happens, I wont be too disappointed, afterall, its nothing compared to what we are going to be getting on the state level. I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act slipped in there too. Ideally I would like to see SBRs removed from the NFA as well.

If we get ANYTHING out of this, I will be shocked.

 

[The Heretic]

Plus once the 'compromise' is in place and they have the federal BGC law in place, then all that needs to happen is one "mass shooter" with a concealed carry permit shooting up a school, and they will repeal national reciprocity but keep the BGC law in effect. Easy peasy.

The anti-gunners don't care about crime or mass shooters. They know gun control doesn't work against those problems. What they want is to disarm the general public, not disarm criminals and crazy people or terrorists.

 

[shibbershabber]

Realizing these things, its hard to formulate a response...

The drawing and crossing of red lines, etc...

Bottom line is that gun owners need to be better organized, well organized if you like, in order to put out a unified response to whatever comes down the line.

 

[cigars]

Define "stronger BGC." If it means actually ENFORCING the requirement that PP's be put into NICS with penalties for failure to enter the prohibiting judgments into the system, okay. If it means "backdoor registration," go choke out on a Bubblegum.

Let's just hope that if things should go this way that the Dem's don't write the rules.

 

[E4mafia]

Ya im gonna have to go with a no compromise on this and agree with heretic here. We already have enough hoops to jump thru and enough control measures put in place from years of getting thrown under. Yes weve saved a good portion but the cake keeps getting smaller over time.

If a politician wants to do something try reaching out to the 2A enthusiast base versus the lobbyist 2A imo. Its not a hard concept to understand people just want to be left alone and those who commit the crimes need to be held accountable vs mass punishment. Stop screwing with peoples lives and well being and I guarantee 95% of the fluff reported in the media stops being an issue. But doing that would counter the system and one built on honesty and integrity would cripple this country.

 

[GWS]

Reciprocity AND Hearing Protection Act.

Let those pricks give up more than they get for a change.

 

[Diamondback]

Like I said, the only "compromise" I'll agree to is forcing the clerks and jerks who keep the PP's from being flagged as such to do what they're supposed to be doing anyway.

 

[Diamondback]

Reciprocity AND Hearing Protection Act.

Let those pricks give up more than they get for a change.

AND stake Sporting Purposes Clause in the heart... the more we load up our conditions, the more we're likely to get since THEY "need to DO SOMETHING".

Aim for the stars and you might get the moon... which puts you that much closer. Same thing as THEY've done.

 

[Xaevian]

I have illustrated my reasonable compromise in exchange for UBC in another thread. Let me expand it here, since that is the specific thread topic.

I would accept UBC if: full repeal GCA and NFA, remove the F from BATFE, eliminate FFLs, UBC would be available thru the federal government that already provides this service to anyone 24/7/365 and would be free of charge and no record kept except a receipt-print or electronic-provided to the transferee by the person doing the check, and would either preclude any state law or required to be adopted by all 50 states before taking effect. No ERPOs, no loss of 2A right without due process including being a convicted felon, no misdemeanor offenses would be allowed to limit possession. No future changes to this law without a supermajority.

I would also ask for an 8-year lifetime term limit on any federal elected official, an elected salary cap at 1776 level, no protection service beyond normal LEOs, and no elected member health insurance or retirement program, but that might border on unreasonable.

See? I'm willing to compromise. Take it or shut the eff up [gun grabbing nazis] and stop asking. Jeez, "are we there, yet?..are we there, yet?..are we there, yet?" It's getting effing old. Now who's not willing to compromise?

 

[American123]

I want to compromise the way the anti-freedom party compromises.

We get what we want and they get nothing in return. I'm willing to compromise in that way.

 

[awshoot]

I thought the proposal on Open Source Defense was interesting -- Swiss system: Game theory and guns: why universal background checks are a debate — and how to solve it | Open Source Defense

1. Any gun buyer can log into the NICS background check system and enter their personal information. The system gives them a check number that expires in 1 week. (For reference here is ATF Form 4473, the background check form.)
2. The buyer can then buy firearms from any legal seller. They have to meet face-to-face (or ship the gun to a licensed dealer for the buyer to do the check with), and the buyer shows the check number. The seller verifies the buyer's ID, enters the check number into the NICS system, and the system returns just one word: "approved" or "denied". If the check is approved, they can proceed with the sale.
3. The system doesn't collect any information at all on the item(s) being sold/transferred (type, make, model, quantity, etc.) — its only job is to check on whether the buyer is legally allowed to purchase firearms. After one week, when the check number expires, the system doesn't retain any records. (That information is already archived for 20 years on the Form 4473 for all gun shop sales.) The system collects no information about the seller, as it's designed to work without even knowing the seller's identity.
4. Transfers between family members are exempt. Firearm loans of up to 14 days are also exempt — this is to accommodate a situation where, say, two people are on a backcountry hunting trip and one needs to lend the other a gun during the trip. They need some way to do that without committing a felony.

IF the bolded part is actually followed, this sounds like a good method to me. Am I missing something?

 

[Member 5605]

The compromise is as follows:

No

That should sum it up nicely. Thoughts?

 

[nammac]

Background checks already exist. Enforce the laws that are already in place. Ensure that all records for criminal and mental health issues are properly recorded and available to the process. Agencies that fail to perform their duty in supplying timely information get hefty fines and the folks in charge are discharged. And possibly be brought up on criminal negligence charges. Period...

There, that's my compromise... The second Amendment has been taking it in the shorts since at least 1934. It's well past time for that to stop.

 

[Member 5605]

I thought the proposal on Open Source Defense was interesting -- Swiss system: Game theory and guns: why universal background checks are a debate — and how to solve it | Open Source Defense



IF the bolded part is actually followed, this sounds like a good method to me. Am I missing something?

Remember that OSP was supposed to can records on the state level too after xyz years and they have yet to prove they are doing it.

We also know that the Feds have rogue/weaponized agencies within departments that are not accountable. Individuals who siphon off information/data and we've even had brought to light IT personnel who have intentionally grabbed data and walked away. Then there are email servers in closets, there is no trust anymore and that's the main problem. The infighting and weponization of departments and agencies is why this is a fail.


Nothing in America that's sent to the .Gov will ever be deleted. FOIA ensures that.