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Data seems to be from the 1990's though
The data is 20 years out of date, which makes it weak as Hell compared to the more recently available data. In 1994 you could make a pretty solid circumstantial case against gun control. In 2013 you can make a rock-solid empirical case against it with reams of unimpeachable data.
This had some good info along those lines: Gun Facts - Gun Control | Facts | Debunk | Myths. It was using newer FBI data among other things.True, but the same rhetoric is being used by the left.
If you have it handy, please post it. The gun controllers still
use the same mythical statements today as they did then.
It shows how their minds are still stuck in the same rut.
This had some good info along those lines: Gun Facts - Gun Control | Facts | Debunk | Myths. It was using newer FBI data among other things.
Nice thread for info. Even if the first post is 20-yrs old, still very useful.
i.e. you guys (pointing at gun-control) have been making the same arguments for years, and it's still not true!
True, but the same rhetoric is being used by the left.
If you have it handy, please post it. The gun controllers still
use the same mythical statements today as they did then.
It shows how their minds are still stuck in the same rut.
It's been posted on every gun forum in the country. It's been posted ad infinitum. It's in the newspapers every year when the FBI releases its UCRs.
A few highlights though:
- As of 2009 (the last year I got the solid numbers on) the average number of "accidental gun deaths" according to the CDC was an annual 800ish. That's down by orders of magnitude from the 1930s. It's about the same number as people dying from lightning strikes every year according to NOOA. Less than 50 on average are children under 14. -That's safer than what's under your kitchen sink by a long shot. That number is also very questionable unless you believe that police officers and others routinely FATALLY shoot themselves "while cleaning their guns." -As opposed to under-reported suicides.
- Violent crime has been dropping precipitously since it's absolute height in 1989. (Some claim '92 or '93) At the same time, according to the gun industry, they've sold at least 40 MILLION new guns to private citizens. According to the UN, according to the NRA, according to NICS numbers, the lowest plausible number of firearms in American private hands is at an all-time high at the same time as violent crime (including murder) has gone down by 50%. -So much for guns cause crime. If they did, we'd be looking at a crime epidemic that made the 70s and 80s look like nothing.
- In his peer-reviewed study, John Lott proved, beyond any doubt, that the number of guns did not increase crime. He further showed massive correlation between the numbers of permitted concealed carry holders and lower crime. This report and subsequent updates has consistently held up to criticism, the only possible area that's under any debate is the single category of aggravated assaults, notably only in dispute among gun-control advocates. do a wiki-search on "more guns less crime," it's all there.
- According to the National Academy of Sciences, they were unable to find any instance where gun control laws directly lowered crime. (Can't remember when the study was, but some years back -google it).
- Record numbers of people now have concealed carry permits. (8 million was the last estimate I heard and I think that's quite low). And yet, contrary to gun control arguments, we do NOT routinely see shootouts over parking spaces and the like. In fact, CCW permit holders (another Lott study appearing in a scientific peer-reviewed journal) showed CCW permit holders to be the least crime-committing group in the nation.
This kind of data is contrasted by the gun control people, who rely SOLELY upon thoroughly debunked "studies" that were SAVAGED even in their own publications for bad methodology, outright lies and misrepresentations of fact such as:
- The "machine gun," Obama claimed was used at Newtown
- The attempt made famously transparent by VPC's Josh Sugarman to equate semi-automatic rifles to machine guns to a public that didn't know the difference.
"... The weapons' (referring to semi-automatic rifles)menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons"
- The continuing lie that criminals get their guns at gun shows
- (They actually get them in the following order of frequency: Borrow them from a friend, buy them from an illicit dealer, have a straw-purchaser buy them and personally steal them (12% or so on that last as I recall according to a justice department researcher. -again, google it).
- And the big one, neglecting to mention that nearly 50% of the murders in the entire country happen in urban black neighborhoods when young black men kill each other -A rate that's nearly EIGHT TIMES that of all other groups.
- And finally, lets not forget the biggest recent lie: That "assault weapons" are something to be concerned about when they are used in less than 1% of "gun" crimes, contrasted to handguns, used to commit 98%+. If they actually believed their own line, they'd be talking about handgun restrictions, not bans on ARs.
These last two, and the gun-prohibitionists' astonishing public silence on both fronts is as much proof as anyone should need that the antis are lying and don't give a rip about crime, or murder, nor do they believe their own propaganda. If they were honest, if they actually believed heir own BS, NO ONE would be talking about "assault weapons." It would all be about what's broken in the African American Communities and how to restrict handgun ownership and that would be their laser-like focus.
Obama wouldn't have pushed for "expanded background checks," he would have been pushing for drastic limits on handgun ownership. If guns are the problem, surely he'd be on fire about the guns that are used in 98+% of gun crimes right? No. In a relatively few incidents (actual mass shootings, not the FBI's ridiculous anything over 4 people which includes domestics, gang shootings, etc) that claim less than 100 people in an average year, he's like a laser beam on that. Totally ignoring the 9000 or so murders committed with handguns.
And so is Bloomberg and Feinstein, and Schumer and McCarthy and Sarah Brady and the rest of the usual suspects.
When someone says they are interested in fixing a "problem," and proceeds to concentrate solely on something that ignores 98%+ of that problem it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they are not serious about the professed problem. There's another agenda. That is a self-evident argument that one look at the UCRs can back-up.
Look up:
CDC report on gun violence in America (released this year)
Gary Kleck
John Lott
FBI Uniform Crime Reports
CDC statistics on accidental deaths
Just to name a few.
That's all relatively recent data. The reason why it's so important is that it's rock-solid. 20 years ago we did not KNOW this stuff. We suspected it. Today we can PROVE it to anyone who's actually willing to listen.
THIS is why 20-year-old data is less than really useful. they just didn't have the numbers then. (Among other things, federally mandated crime reporting since 1994 has improved dramatically, making the drop in crime rate very likely even MORE dramatic than it already is).
-Bill
True, but the same rhetoric is being used by the left.
If you have it handy, please post it. The gun controllers still
use the same mythical statements today as they did then.
It shows how their minds are still stuck in the same rut.
unfortunately the old saying holds true "if it ain't broke don't fix it" it was working then and is still kinda working now.
They get attention by being noisy and obnoxious. We must be louder than they are.
We as a body of pro gun folks have been on the defense, but they are always on the offense.
That needs to change.
"Should it be renewed, the ban's effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement. AWs were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban. LCMs are involved in a more substantial share of gun crimes, but it is not clear how often the outcomes of gun attacks depend on the ability of offenders to fire more than ten shots (the current magazine capacity limit) without reloading."