the nuances of sighting in...

[Koda]

I've always found sighting in to be more work than fun. My old scope served me well for many years but it was a cheapy and fogged up in the rain and cold for the last several years. I replaced it this year along with the ammo since my original supply finally dried up... I don't shoot this much its a hunting rifle.

I've never been able to afford a range membership so I go in the woods. I have one friend that has taken me as a guest to a range but there has always been scheduling and time constraints on top of finding which new factory load works best. My old ammo was Federal Premium but new boxes seem to have a larger group than what I'm used to with the old supply. I've found better group results with Hornandy American Whitetail, Hornandy Superformance and believe it or not cheap Federal Fusion but the last sight in left me shooting a little to the left, an OK group but only at 100 yds which opened up to a larger group to the left at 200. At least I'm on paper....

So I wanted to see if I could move the group over and out to 200 yds so I asked my friend and he took me to the TCGC 200/300 yd range but I didn't know they don't allow you to set up a 100yd target in line. We only had a couple hours and no time to drive back and forth to ranges with setup time but I was able to see that I could put rounds on paper at 300 yds while I was there so I made no adjustments and saved ammo. I was also disappointed to learn the hard way they didn't have sandbags to borrow, although I have a Harris bipod witch really helps there is still a lot of human error shooting out that far with the shoulder free to move and being hot summertime out I didn't have much for any improvised padding like a heavy jacket to put down...

ug, the nuances of sighting in. I just want my group to be centered on the bullseye. I don't think I will get a chance at the range before hunting season so I'm thinking of going back out to my spot in the woods this Sunday. I have one spot that's 0-200 yds and another in a clearcut that goes out to 400yds (but is a huge pain to walk thru).

Getting geared up to shoot on public lands is another thing too. To do it right you have to invest in a lot of other stuff to get a steady shot and save time walking... this can be expensive but I'm too frugal so I have improvised: I did invest in a cheap laser range finder last fall, $150 bucks. My God I wish I would have done that years ago even the cheapy is amazing (when it actually tags something, if your looking into getting your first one get the most expensive one you can push for...). I have an old spotting scope my dad gave me and I made 2 of my own design target stands. This year I bought a cheap shooting mat from MidwayUSA since I cant afford a steady shooting table. I love my Harris bipod shooting prone but have learned I need to improve on that position. Last weekend I decided to buy the basic Caldwells Led Sled. Never used one my hopes is its the end all to sighting in and eliminates all of the human error except maybe the trigger pull, which as far as I know is pretty light on my hunting rifle. I'm hoping to get out Sunday and see if I can fine tune that group on center at 100 yds then see how I do at 200.

Does anyone else find this more work than fun? (deep down inside I'm having fun but its still work...)

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[Koda]

here is my group at 100 yds shooting prone in the woods. You can see Im a bit to the left. The tick marks on the home-made target are 1" increments. I use a bingo dobber for the bullseye.


here is my group at 200 yds... again a more to the left but much larger group thank I expected, different ammo brand. Shooting from the bench with the bipod but not real good stock support.... (I think I'm a better shot prone but recoil hurts my shoulder more). I invested in some actual targets this time...


here is what I did at 300 yds again from the bench... pretty sloppy but I was getting them on paper


now that I've self incriminated myself feel free to critique.

 

[2506]

At 300 yards, I'd say you're minute-of-deer.

 

[Koda]

At 300 yards, I'd say your minute-of-deer.

perhaps, but only if I always shot at deer from a bench or prone position.

2 things I'm hoping to do is center the group on bullseye and tighten the group from a rest at the longer distances to match what they show at 100yds.

The rifle was originally purchased for antelope hunting back when you could actually get tags. I've taken 2 with it and both out at 300 yds. I'm saving points and hoping for at least one more antelope hunt in my life. Not gonna happen this year but I'll use it for deer and elk.

 

[P7M13]

What's your trigger like? In my personal experience as a RH shooter, pulling too hard on the trigger will push left.
I use a lead sled for sighting.
Although I've been looking for my damn badge for a week now, if you ever want an invite to TCGC, drop me a PM. I prefer weekdays, and I'm Jonesing to go.

 

[Stomper]

I run 150-170gr Hornady SST and 150-170gr Remington Core-Lokt through my .308 Ruger American, and believe it or not I can actually get MOA/-MOA much easier with the 150gr Core-Lokt. If you can, buy a couple different loads of Hornady and Remington Core-Lokt and see if that makes a difference.

 

[slimmer13]

I would say, unless you find the magic cartridge that your rifle likes, then that is pretty typical of factory ammunition.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Well good on you anyway for shooting paper. Paper doesn't lie.
It's just so cute to see folk banging 12" plates at whatever and then them crowing all about it.. for whatever reason.

 

[308]

Early on I failed to recognize as the barrel heats up, the POI begins to shift, and it was then I made the mistake of making further adjustments to my scope chasing that POI around the target.

Depending on the barrel diameter/type, I would caution shooting more than 3-5 rounds slowly before letting the barrel cool back down to ambient. Failure to do this will cause frustration and waste ammo.

 

[Member 5605]

Sighting in a rifle can be entertaining and it can be very frustrating.

I had like you factory ammo that wouldn't shoot anything smaller than 8" patterns at 100y then had some that shot 2". None of course compare to .3" that I'm getting now with reloads.

What you are experiencing is normal. I've helped out the past few years at the hunters sight in at ARPC so I see all sorts of shooters, rifles and combinations - good and bad.

If you be near here sometime we could bang out a lot of shooting with bipod, sled and 100y targets to get the human error out of the question and focus on how your rifle shoots.

 

[Certaindeaf]

And my dear brother, even if an Olympic shooter was laying them on out there at that 300, perhaps stretched out like you were in that field position..
What I'm trying to say I guess is it's all about sending them and the particulars..
There's probably a thread in "ammo" and or something.

 

[Member 5605]

Early on I failed to recognize as the barrel heats up, the POI begins to shift, and it was then I made the mistake of making further adjustments to my scope chasing that POI around the target.

Depending on the barrel diameter/type, I would caution shooting more than 3-5 rounds slowly before letting the barrel cool back down to ambient. Failure to do this will cause frustration and waste ammo.

True. Now it also depends on the barrel a lot. My .308 doesn't poi shift, it's heavy and free floated. My Ruger American ranch doesn't shift either. Grandpas old hunting rifle.... that's a different story. 4 shots and shift happens. Most shift that I've seen happens vertically. Irritating but it can be compensated for.

Accuracy vs precision

 

[Joe13]

I've got a Clark rifles membership if you ever want to run up there man.

They have a 300 you can put your paper in the 100-200-300 markers.

And they have sand bags.



Honestly, I've never had that hard of a time with my scopes so I'm not sure what to say. My .308 hunting rifle with the scout scope would put a bullet in the exact place the scope was on when I pulled the trigger so human error was the only issue if I missed.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think this thread title "Sighting In" encompasses.. anyway, we know that.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Sighting in a rifle is pretty simple. Not hardly any work, when done right. Not critiquing the OP, just sayin..... It generally takes me 2 adjustments (after bore sighting) on the scope to get zeroed in. IF I have a good tracking scope. Since the OP did ask to critique, my only recommendation would be to NOT use or buy the leadsled. They are hard on wood stocked rifles! Shoot from a bench with sand bags under your rifle in the appropriate spots, meaning not way out on the tip of the forend and not under the trigger guard. Trust me, I've seen it done both ways. I also watched a guy lay his barrel/muzzle in the crease of a sandbag and actually shoot the sandbag and wonder why his groups went to bubblegum.

Let me show you guys some targets shot with some of my old rifles after switching scopes and dialing them in. Some of these rifles were "new to me" and out for the first time after glass bedding and trigger work:

1957 270 fwt with old steel tube weaver K4:

Scope and rifle were dialed in after this 3 shot group was shot. Easy adjustment of 4 clicks to the right and it's where I wanted it in the center of the target.

pre 64 338 win mag. First group fired with the rifle:


Second group fired with 338 win mag. Scope wasn't tracking perfectly. I expected a little better from a Swaro:



CZ 550 American 9.3x62mm:


After dialed in, this is how the 9.3x62mm shot:


My buddies 338 win mag being dialed in for the first time. He wanted to be 2" high at 100. He later realized the 338 was too much rifle for him to handle. His group was shot on the upper left target. Make note of the amount of adjustments made to get his rifle dialed in. I was shooting the rifle initially to get it on paper and sighted in:


The reason I'm showing these targets, is because they show the full story of where the bore sight shot was and the amount of adjustments it takes to get close to "zero", whether that may be true zero (bulls eye), 1", 2", or 3" high at 100 yards or further. I also like to make note of the first groups I fire with my "new to me" rifles or when I'm changing scopes out. I also need to clarify that when I say "bore sight", that means I'm actually looking down the bore at a target placed 100 yards away and getting the scope dialed in to the target so the first shot is on paper. This is oldschool, but has worked for many years. This works best with bolt action rifles and not semi auto or other action types. With these action types, it is best to use a collimator type bore sighting device...This shooting stuff is all in fun and when it starts becoming too much work, maybe you are doing something wrong...

 

[bsa1917hunter]

True. Now it also depends on the barrel a lot. My .308 doesn't poi shift, it's heavy and free floated. My Ruger American ranch doesn't shift either. Grandpas old hunting rifle.... that's a different story. 4 shots and shift happens. Most shift that I've seen happens vertically. Irritating but it can be compensated for.

Accuracy vs precision

View attachment 309160

Excellent post. However, it's not just the barrel that affects poi shifts. A properly glass bedded rifle does wonders on groups and shot placement. A lot of guys bad mouth featherweight rifles and say the groups get terrible after "3 shots". I've heard this too many times to count. I've also had to put some of those guys in their place:
I won't use match grade bullets to prove a point either. This is my deer/elk load...

The barrel only plays a portion of the part when it comes to accuracy. How the rifle is bedded, trigger, optics and operator error plays an even more significant role when it comes to precision and accuracy. I'd almost wager, granddads rifle may need a little attention in the bedding department...

 

[Koda]

Early on I failed to recognize as the barrel heats up, the POI begins to shift, and it was then I made the mistake of making further adjustments to my scope chasing that POI around the target.

Depending on the barrel diameter/type, I would caution shooting more than 3-5 rounds slowly before letting the barrel cool back down to ambient. Failure to do this will cause frustration and waste ammo.

I'm actually aware of that but in my experience it take time and multiple range trips to sight in the first/cold shot. Then it gets complicated if you dont have a good rest. Now that I have the Led Sled I want to retrieve the first shot target for record unless maybe I make any adjustments. If Im shooting out in the woods I'll also bring a second rifle to work or play with while the main rifle cools after 3-4 shots.

 

[Koda]

I've got a Clark rifles membership if you ever want to run up there man.

They have a 300 you can put your paper in the 100-200-300 markers.

And they have sand bags.

few years ago I learned they let non members go on Sundays and I loved that place. When they closed it to members only is when Ive been gearing up to be self sufficient shooting on public lands. If whenever you go out there and want company just send me a message and I'd be excited to met you there. Not only do they have sand bags but their range is 1, 2, and 300 yds all in one lane, way more efficient for sighting in.

 

[thorborg]

I'm voting sighting in is fun, now with one exception that is caused by age.
I use a Leupold collimator maybe 25 years old which always gets me on paper and usually within 6 inches. Only once have I needed more than 8 rounds to bring it home and that was due to a loose mount.
The un fun exception is the walk. having no spotting scope able to see clean holes @ 150 yards each check needs travel to review which is not without difficulty.
On the positive side, the time it takes to check the target allows the barrel to cool.

 

[Joe13]

few years ago I learned they let non members go on Sundays and I loved that place. When they closed it to members only is when Ive been gearing up to be self sufficient shooting on public lands. If whenever you go out there and want company just send me a message and I'd be excited to met you there. Not only do they have sand bags but their range is 1, 2, and 300 yds all in one lane, way more efficient for sighting in.

I'll be under the knife on the 1st so I should be up for a range trip after a week or two tops I'd think.

That should get you in before rifle season I believe.

I've heard DDRC has "Hunters sight in range days" that are free or cheap but I could be mistaken.