The Costs Involved In Being A Legal Gun Owner and Carrier.

[oldcorpgunny]

It's obvious that there are two sets of rules in America today with regard to firearms, their use and ownership. I want to focus on the laws and rules that apply to those that try to abide by the rule of law.
Here in the Peoples Republic of Washington, we are required to have gun safes, concealed carry permits, background checks ad nauseam. All these things require payments that are known as "fees" that are paid to government agencies. My CCL is $50.00 for me and another $50.00 for my wife. Background checks for gun purchases are all over the place, but seem to average about $25.00. My gun safes were about $800.00 each (I have three). If I were to circumvent or otherwise try to avoid the regulations and fees, I would be charged with certain crimes and probably lose my ability to own firearms. I am at the mercy of obvious "twits" if they thought that I had any mental health issues (they continue to expand those red flag laws to include more actions and behaviors that they consider warning flags!) However, if you be a "gangbanger" that beats his "ho's", neglects his offspring, makes a fine living selling drugs and stolen guns and is in general a miscreant, then you be exempt (in practical terms) from the rules and costs of a civilized society.
I find it very interesting that if a poor man (economically) is not able to pay the fees involved in gun ownership, then he may NOT enjoy his constitutionally given and protected rights. There are no fee waivers for the honest man who is economically disadvantaged. Yet, waivers are granted frequently to others (non gun related) when it comes to permitting for projects that will somehow benefit a particular race or ethnic culture. In some instances, even the law is ignored or waived for someone in a position of prominence or authority. I have witnessed this.
Since the majority of those that will read this pay property taxes in some fashion, I'd like to suggest that since we pay taxes which are used to pay for EVERY function of federal, state and local government, we should no longer have to pay additional fees to simply remain law abiding citizens. Government at every level is filled with bloated staffs with nothing to do, so let them earn a tiny portion of their exorbitant salaries and benefits by doing the background checks and everything else that they require for me to continue be the good citizen that I am.
I recognize that this posting will be responded to by those that don't agree with me. That's fine, although I would remind you that I fought to preserve your right to deny me mine. It just seems very wrong for good people to be treated so poorly.

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[ma96782]

Because.....the politicians actually believe that the 2nd A says......

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, unless I say it's reasonable.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Caveman Jim]

Well , you know it's for the children's safety, right???

There isn't a fee to exercise many big city folks 1st amendment (riot, burn and loot) except we have to get a permit to rally for our 2nd amendment right...

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Well , you know it's for the children's safety, right???

There isn't a fee to exercise many big city folks 1st amendment (riot, burn and loot) except we have to get a permit to rally for our 2nd amendment right...

Thanks, that's part of my point. Rioters don't have to pay for anything, even after they've been caught breaking all kinds of laws.

 

[Medic!]

Idaho.

 

[Kruel J]

Idaho.

Udaho.

 

[Kruel J]

It's obvious that there are two sets of rules in America today with regard to firearms, their use and ownership. I want to focus on the laws and rules that apply to those that try to abide by the rule of law.
Here in the Peoples Republic of Washington, we are required to have gun safes, concealed carry permits, background checks ad nauseam. All these things require payments that are known as "fees" that are paid to government agencies. My CCL is $50.00 for me and another $50.00 for my wife. Background checks for gun purchases are all over the place, but seem to average about $25.00. My gun safes were about $800.00 each (I have three). If I were to circumvent or otherwise try to avoid the regulations and fees, I would be charged with certain crimes and probably lose my ability to own firearms. I am at the mercy of obvious "twits" if they thought that I had any mental health issues (they continue to expand those red flag laws to include more actions and behaviors that they consider warning flags!) However, if you be a "gangbanger" that beats his "ho's", neglects his offspring, makes a fine living selling drugs and stolen guns and is in general a miscreant, then you be exempt (in practical terms) from the rules and costs of a civilized society.
I find it very interesting that if a poor man (economically) is not able to pay the fees involved in gun ownership, then he may NOT enjoy his constitutionally given and protected rights. There are no fee waivers for the honest man who is economically disadvantaged. Yet, waivers are granted frequently to others (non gun related) when it comes to permitting for projects that will somehow benefit a particular race or ethnic culture. In some instances, even the law is ignored or waived for someone in a position of prominence or authority. I have witnessed this.
Since the majority of those that will read this pay property taxes in some fashion, I'd like to suggest that since we pay taxes which are used to pay for EVERY function of federal, state and local government, we should no longer have to pay additional fees to simply remain law abiding citizens. Government at every level is filled with bloated staffs with nothing to do, so let them earn a tiny portion of their exorbitant salaries and benefits by doing the background checks and everything else that they require for me to continue be the good citizen that I am.
I recognize that this posting will be responded to by those that don't agree with me. That's fine, although I would remind you that I fought to preserve your right to deny me mine. It just seems very wrong for good people to be treated so poorly.

Constitutionally protected rights are for everyone. But if someone is "too poor" to get involved in gun ownership, I don't know what to tell them. Actually I do. Save some damn money, get a better/second job or find other means. There are answers to problems, but many don't want to actually pursue them.

Socialism fixes this problem.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Constitutionally protected rights are for everyone. But if someone is "too poor" to get involved in gun ownership, I don't know what to tell them. Socialism fix that problem.

My point in part is: Perhaps you've worked hard to buy that particular handgun and then you have to pay to carry in concealed. I say, we've already paid for the permits. Get rid of fees.

 

[Kruel J]

My point in part is: Perhaps you've worked hard to buy that particular handgun and then you have to pay to carry in concealed. I say, we've already paid for the permits. Get rid of fees.

I agree. But $50-60 (depending on the state) for a 4-5 year permit (again, state dependent) doesn't seem out of reach for most people.

 

[turbo_vanner]

I don't disagree with you, but in your comparison... if you never get caught concealing without a permit, or storing guns outside a safe, you don't need the permits or safe (purely hypothetical, not advice). That is how the gangbanger gets away with without them, they don't care. When or if they get caught breaking those rules, the same punishments apply. I think the difference is more in who respects what laws, and who is willing to accept what punishments, and those are personal choices.

 

[PaulB47]

there are two sets of rules in America today

Yes, but keep in mind that those in the ruling class, and their cronies, act in their own interest - just like the rest of us do. In this case their interest is that people are more easily ruled when they are constantly fighting each other: "divide and conquer". Favoring one side over the other is an obvious way to do this.

Government at every level is filled with bloated staffs with nothing to do, so let them earn a tiny portion of their exorbitant salaries and benefits by doing the background checks and everything else that they require for me to continue be the good citizen that I am.

It won't happen, because that is not in the interest of the ruling class. Of course, background checks and all the rest are not done for our benefit in the first place. Those things are done to make life difficult for gun owners. People in the ruling class have a natural aversion to armed peons - and for good reason.

You could just break the law, if it bothers you. As Robert Heinlein noted, "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

Something I wrote a while back:
Government, a Force of Nature | Strike-The-Root: A Journal Of Liberty

 

[oldcorpgunny]

I don't disagree with you, but in your comparison... if you never get caught concealing without a permit, or storing guns outside a safe, you don't need the permits or safe (purely hypothetical, not advice). That is how the gangbanger gets away with without them, they don't care. When or if they get caught breaking those rules, the same punishments apply. I think the difference is more in who respects what laws, and who is willing to accept what punishments, and those are personal choices.

Thanks, yes, I do understand those dynamics, but if permits and background checks were free as they should be, then a man wouldn't have to resort to currently illegal methods to be in compliance with the law.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Yes, but keep in mind that those in the ruling class, and their cronies, act in their own interest - just like the rest of us do. In this case their interest is that people are more easily ruled when they are constantly fighting each other: "divide and conquer". Favoring one side over the other is an obvious way to do this.



It won't happen, because that is not in the interest of the ruling class. Of course, background checks and all the rest are not done for our benefit in the first place. Those things are done to make life difficult for gun owners. People in the ruling class have a natural aversion to armed peons - and for good reason.

You could just break the law, if it bothers you. As Robert Heinlein noted, "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

Something I wrote a while back:
Government, a Force of Nature | Strike-The-Root: A Journal Of Liberty

Thanks for your input Paul, but rather than continue to divide an already fractured society, I pose the suggestion to unify it (at least from a gun owner's perspective) by eliminating onerous fees that have already been paid for from the general fund.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Well , you know it's for the children's safety, right???

There isn't a fee to exercise many big city folks 1st amendment (riot, burn and loot) except we have to get a permit to rally for our 2nd amendment right...

Yes, it's always about the "children" especially when it comes to funding some goofy school thing. Yet, with all the money thrown at public education (Oregon is the 4th highest spending in the nation) Johnny still can't read and children graduate at a functionally illiterate level. Oregon ranks just above Mississippi in graduation rates. The SAT's have been so dumbed down to facilitate a particular group of people that colleges and universities have almost universally opted for the CAT instead. Teachers are now saying that schools shouldn't reopen and yet they still want to be paid! Yes, it's all about the little "chiruns".

 

[aljames]

Constitutional carry makes sense to me.....if you can legally own a gun then you're allowed to carry it however you would like. Makes sense since the bag guys are going to carry one regardless of any laws or criminal history.

Background checks should be free since the state and or feds require you to go through one everytime. I wouldn't mind if the FFL charged us a fee for their time as they are essentially stuck in the middle of the government and the buyer and must follow the law or risk losing their livelihood.

It is frustrating to watch some folks getting a free pass on a lot of this stuff. And that goes all the way from street level crime to the highest levels of government.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Yes, it's always about the "children" especially when it comes to funding some goofy school thing. Yet, with all the money thrown at public education (Oregon is the 4th highest spending in the nation) Johnny still can't read and children graduate at a functionally illiterate level. Oregon ranks just above Mississippi in graduation rates. The SAT's have been so dumbed down to facilitate a particular group of people that colleges and universities have almost universally opted for the CAT instead. Teachers are now saying that schools shouldn't reopen and yet they still want to be paid! Yes, it's all about the little "chiruns".

I do hope that you realize that I was being sarcastic.
I do agree with your statement above.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

I do hope that you realize that I was being sarcastic.
I do agree with your statement above.

Of course I do! I, on the other hand, was lamenting the loss of any real future that kids today may think they have.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Of course I do! I, on the other hand, was lamenting the loss of any real future that kids today may think they have.

Agree, glad my kids were raised without a cellphone in their face like todays generation of kids. My grandkids have an uphill battle but as long as I'm alive, I'm going to teach them to be Americans not the pussies of today.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Agree, glad my kids were raised without a cellphone in their face like todays generation of kids. My grandkids have an uphill battle but as long as I'm alive, I'm going to teach them to be Americans not the pussies of today.

A big "Amen" to that, sir! That's what gramps do. I reminded both of my daughters in law that my job was to teach all 8 of my grandkids the true ways of life. Pull my finger.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Reasonable infringements!

.Gov creates Fees as a easier to swallow term for TAX, and a TAX on a RIGHT isn't a right at all! Forcing compliance on a .gov mandate given force of law with out constitutional review seems to the way of things, after 1934 NFA went live, we got the screw, and worse, when GCA 1968 went live, we got more .gov mandated law, enforced by an illegal agency never chartered by Congress and approved of by WE the People! So, the real, question is, WHY has none of this ever been challenged in our top Court? And further more, why does our top court continue to refuse to hear a strong 2nd case? Is it because the politics of the times do not align with such an inevitable outcome, or are they afraid a true and accurate ruling on the 2nd would open Pandora's box-O-Freedom we have always had, but have been denied since the first real infringement in 1934!