Teach me about custom barrels

[Koda]

I think in the next year I might replace my barrel on my old Rem700 rifle. Its been heavily used and Id like to continue using the rifle till I retire. I thought I knew a lot about guns until I started googling what to learn about custom barrels and its like a whole new world, makes sense considering its the last thing the bullet sees before meeting the target. Anyways... I will list what Im researching and what little I know so far, feel free to pick a topic and school me or just school me on it all.

Rem 700 cal: 25-06. Application hunting deer, elk and pronghorn, with target sessions in between.

Twist. I already know I want a fast twist to use heavier longer bullets for this rifle I want a 7:1 twist rate to shoot monolithics in the 115 to 128grain range.

Barrel length? Currently 24inches. Id like to stay here but open to reasons to go longer.

Barrel material: Id like to stay with polished blued steel to match the receiver. I will remain open to other better non matching materials but you might have to twist my arm a lot.

Carbon fiber barrels? but why? Can I get bull barrel performance for the same weight as a tapered barrel?

Fluting? Im kinda liking the idea of improving cooling down time between shots...

Contour? My current barrel in thin, measures .650" dia at the crown. Id like to go at least .750" but not certain how much more weight I want to add to a hunting rifle.

Crown? Im reading there is flat, 11deg, recessed, standard... what to pick and why?

Rifling type? button or cut?

Rifling count? How many lands? I see one maker lets me pick between 4 or 5, why?
Others dont offer, is this worth insisting?

Chamber, should I go Ackely Improved and why? Benefits vs cons? Can I still shoot regular ammo?

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[JuglansRegia]

What is your budget for this project?

 

[DirectDrive]

I think in the next year I might replace my barrel on my old Rem700 rifle. Its been heavily used and Id like to continue using the rifle till I retire. I thought I knew a lot about guns until I started googling what to learn about custom barrels and its like a whole new world, makes sense considering its the last thing the bullet sees before meeting the target. Anyways... I will list what Im researching and what little I know so far, feel free to pick a topic and school me or just school me on it all.

Nice action to be working with.

Barrel length? Currently 24inches. Id like to stay here but open to reasons to go longer.

Velocity.
You could go with 26" and cut it down later if you didn't like it.
If it's to be a mountain gun with a lot of bushwhacking, then 24"

Barrel material: Id like to stay with polished blued steel to match the receiver. I will remain open to other better non matching materials but you might have to twist my arm a lot.

You will find that a lot of the better barrel offerings are going to be stainless steel.
There is a new Cerokote color (can't remember the name) that does a good job matching bluing.

Fluting? Im kinda liking the idea of improving cooling down time between shots...

Looks kewl, but I'm not a huge fan, especially on a thinner barrel.
Some barrel makers like Krieger won't do it and will void warranty if you have a 3rd party do it.

Contour? My current barrel in thin, measures .650" dia at the crown. Id like to go at least .750" but not certain how much more weight I want to add to a hunting rifle.

I had a riflemaker once tell me, "If you are going to carry it, don't go over .650" at the muzzle."
My latest project is a 26" Bartlein with a .670" muzzle. Personally, I wouldn't go heavier for a "walking gun".

Crown? Im reading there is flat, 11deg, recessed, standard... what to pick and why?

11 degree is probably most common. I've always wanted recessed, probably more for the look, so I had it done.
The machinist didn't leave enough material on the outer annular ring.
I should have told him, 70% inside and 30% outside. I got somewhere around 90% - 10%
Here are the proportions that I like...

Rifling type? button or cut?

Purists like cut rifling, both types seem to be in the winner's circle.

Rifling count? How many lands? I see one maker lets me pick between 4 or 5, why?
Others dont offer, is this worth insisting?

5R seems to be all the rage.

Chamber, should I go Ackely Improved and why? Benefits vs cons? Can I still shoot regular ammo?

Velocity. Less trimming. Better combustion.
Are the claims and it depends on which chamber (caliber).
For 25-06 they claim a 100 - 200 FPS gain.
Yes to regular ammo.

 

[Mike7b]

Check out northland shooterssupply.com. Give them a call, nice folks to work with.

 

[P7M13]

Caveat: Whatever you do, prepare to drop some serious money. Unless your're patient and scrounge for deals like me or @arakboss , you'll likely be into it at least $700 minimum before you're done. Like reloading, it's a rabbit hole and can be addictive.
Something you may also consider is selling your action (could get a pretty penny for it) and buying a Tikka or some other quality production rifle.

Rem 700 cal: 25-06. Application hunting deer, elk and pronghorn, with target sessions in between.

You have two choices, "Remage" or shouldered. Many barrel manufacturers now produce "remage" which is a chambered barrel, threaded for a Remington action with a Savage type barrel nut that you can then install yourself. I've done a few of these, but now have my barrels threaded, shouldered and chambered by a gunsmith. A gunsmith will also square the face of your action and bolt in the process of cutting your barrel.​

I recommend the gunsmith route, and especially the squaring/facing of the action and bolt. All this takes time, but is worth it.​

You can send your gun to some places and have it rebarrelled. Prices can vary significantly.​

Twist. I already know I want a fast twist to use heavier longer bullets for this rifle I want a 7:1 twist rate to shoot monolithics in the 115 to 128grain range.

Many manufacturers don't make a barrel in this twist rate for quarter bore.​

Barrel length? Currently 24inches. Id like to stay here but open to reasons to go longer.

That you can get your barrel ordered in the standard 28" length (unfinished ends), and then decide what you really want. Many pros and cons, but typically longer barrels need stiffer profiles and are heavier. Consider your use-case. I have two rifles for coast range hunting, both less than 8 lbs with glass, both with 20" barrels because I discovered the brush is obnoxious with anything longer. My long range rifles are 28" to 30", #7 profile to heavy varmint and weigh 10 to 13 lbs with glass. I do not carry those around hunting.​

Edit to add: given you have cited your use as primarily a hunting rifle, these are typically one or two shot rifles in their use and you need not concern yourself so much with heat effects on the barrel. For target shooting in the off seasons, you will see the effects of heat over a box of ammo with the lighter profiles. Like in life, there are trade-offs with the choices. Heavier barrel profile = stiffer, less prone to heat variations, heavier to carry.... You get the idea....​

Barrel material: Id like to stay with polished blued steel to match the receiver. I will remain open to other better non matching materials but you might have to twist my arm a lot.

Every good barrel manufacturer will offer both CrMo and Stainless barrels. If you use a gunsmith to cut your chamber, crown and threads, you'll need the bluing done on the bare metal. SS is easier in this respect.​

Carbon fiber barrels? but why? Can I get bull barrel performance for the same weight as a tapered barrel?

Many different opinion on CF. Manufacturers will tell you it's for weight savings and faster heat dissipation from the barrel, but not stiffer than a similar, solid steel profile. However, BOHICA -- CF barrels typically start at $750.​

Fluting? Im kinda liking the idea of improving cooling down time between shots...

I've not encountered any discussion where fluting improves heat dissipation, though with increased surface area, it makes sense.​

Fluting is typically done to lighten a stiffer barrel profile. Take a 26" heavy varmint barrel that weighs 6.5 lbs, flute it, and you could shave 1lb off the barrel. Your weight savings can vary.​

FYI, due to the different thermal transfer rates of the materials, CrMo cools faster than stainless steel.​

Contour? My current barrel in thin, measures .650" dia at the crown. Id like to go at least .750" but not certain how much more weight I want to add to a hunting rifle.

Go to barrel manufacturer sites and look at the profiles offered. I recommend checking out a #3 or #4 for something a little heavier than your typical sporter profile.​

Crown? Im reading there is flat, 11deg, recessed, standard... what to pick and why?

Target crown, recessed target crown, 11° crown -- it's all kind of a "what's your preference?" 11° and recessed are useful on hunting rifles because if you put the muzzle on the ground, damage to the crown is less likely.​

Rifling type? button or cut?

Depends on the manufacturer. There's also hammer forged. IMO, unless you are a super-phenomenal shooter, it doesn't make a difference. Go with a reputable manufacturer and you'll be fine.​

Rifling count? How many lands? I see one maker lets me pick between 4 or 5, why?

Is there a best number? IMO, not really. 5R has been touted as the holy grail. I have some 5's and 6's. If I have any 4's, don't know. Had a 3 groove 6mm that I traded for a 6 groove 7mm because I wanted to build a 284 Winchester. Would have liked to try it, tho. I think @Andy54Hawken has some 2 groove rifles that he's scary accurate with.​

Chamber, should I go Ackely Improved and why? Benefits vs cons? Can I still shoot regular ammo?

Lots of guys get all excited about Ackley this and that. Some cartridges *really* benefit from it in performance. Most only see a little gain. Where ackley-izing a chamber really helps is in brass life. I believe in 25-06, you will see clear performance and brass benefits from going Ackley. The 280 Ackley is a prime example of this, now a SAAMI approved chambering.​

An ackley gun will shoot OTS regular ammo, but that brass is now and forever Ackley.​

Cons about going Ackley is the cost of the dies and the delay or cost in getting your barrel made into Ackley.​

 

[Koda]

Will respond more later ,but a quick reply on budget .... I guess id be great if I could keep this project under a grand including gunsmith costs. Is that reasonable?

 

[P7M13]

Will respond more later ,but a quick reply on budget .... I guess id be great if I could keep this project under a grand including gunsmith costs. Is that reasonable?

Yes.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I think @Andy54Hawken has some 2 groove rifles that he's scary accurate with.

I have few original ( antique ) muzzle loaders that still shoot well and at least one of them has a two groove barrel.

In modern rifles...I had a Remington 03A3 from 1943 that shot phenomenally well , it had a two groove barrel.
I used it for both hunting and match shooting...it won its share of blue ribbons.
This rifle by the way was all stock as issued...
Andy

 

[Koda]

super helpful replies, it sounds like in general I really cant go wrong with any of those options. I will probably lean to a recessed crown, I probably will stay with 24in and whatever rifling count they offer but will lean to favor cut rifling if available just cause it seems to be the more popular.

The one thing thats tempting me is to go Ackley Improved.... never thought I would consider this but it sounds like there are more advantages than disadvantages.
It sounds like even though you can there really isnt any reason to shoot regular (non ackley) ammo once you go AI? You get one shot with that brass and Im guessing its a different zero to go back and forth unless you get way lucky. So it sounds like if I go AI then Im pretty committed to that loading which in this caliber is probably dedicated reloading....

 

[JuglansRegia]

For me the challenge was finding a competent local gunsmith with realistic lead times to do my rebarreling job. There are plenty of barrel makers and options.

 

[Koda]

So pondering this Ackley Improved option, if you fire a regular cartridge in the AI chamber it becomes permanently fireformed to AI specs, my guess is there is some loss in velocity the factory or regular cartridge was developed for due to the extra expansion of the case. My question is does this affect accuracy of the regular cartridge?

Probably an obscure question without a definite answer but Im like that...

 

[rcnpthfndr]

talk to LRI in south dakota. their lead times are pretty quick and his work is phenomenal.

there is another smith called deep south tactical they do good work and are pretty quick with their work.

 

[DirectDrive]

talk to LRI in south dakota. their lead times are pretty quick and his work is phenomenal.

there is another smith called deep south tactical they do good work and are pretty quick with their work.

LRI was slow, slow, slow for me. Their main gig seems to be car parts and they back-burnered my project for weeks.
After showing all of their high-dollar NC machines in their "this is us" blurbs, they wanted me to rent a 280AI reamer because "it's not a very popular chambering" !
In a nice way I told them to pound sand, and after making me wait even longer, they finally finished my job with their reamer.
They messed up my recessed crown.
I didn't want my receiver to be Cerakoted, but they Cerakoted my receiver by mistake.
The boss called and apologized, I will add.

The boss takes your order and everything is peachy, and then whatever machinist gets loose from making car parts nibbles away on your project.
And then the Cerakote guy gets it and so on. No one person, one gun thing.

What I learned to do up front :
1) Verify total cost (this was not a problem, but it is a thing for everyone to do).
2) Get them to give you a completion date. This is a biggie, IMO.
3) Make sure that they either have the reamer or that you agree to added reamer charges.
4) In addition to the main work order, write up your understanding of the work order, including pics if necessary and include that writeup in with the firearm.

YMMV

 

[rcnpthfndr]

my experience with LRI was nothing like that, though that was a couple years back though i was just having a 308 spun up.

im trying deep south tactial now as my normal smith is backed up for a very long time. they have 3 actions (x2 R700, x1 Howa 1500) and 3 barrels (x2 SS, x1 CF) and i will ge those when i get back the first week of march. they quoted me 3-4 weeks, so lets see.

you bring up good points as you have to do some expectation management when talking to perspective gunsmiths. delivery time is a big one and communication if there are hiccups. i have found if in the initial communication stage where you are explaining the project that their "Customer service" etiquette is lacking just move on and find someone else. it will save your sanity once your new rifle arrives.