Stupid NRA (again!) No 1911's or revolvers in training classes

[MrNatural]

Just when you think the LaPierre cabal couldn't get any stupider, comes this:

NRA: No 1911s or Revolvers in NRA Carry Guard Training Classes

Here's the link to the story: NRA: No 1911s or Revolvers in NRA Carry Guard Training Classes - The Truth About Guns

"We will not allow revolvers or 1911s as your primary firearm in this class."

And if you use a 1911 or revolver in self defense, Carry Guard probably won't cover you because THEY didn't train you on it. Just speculation, but I'll bet you a buffalo nickel it's somewhere in the fine print.

We pause now for ALL the NRA groupies to jump in with their shrill denunciations of anyone who criticizes the Frenchman's Fudds. The rationalizations for this INCANDESCENTLY stupid move should be a real hoot!

Read More

 

[nammac]

Carry Guard is just a knock off of other, original programs... The NRA should stick to lobbying for gun rights...

Wish they were as rabid in defending gun rights at the state level as they are begging for money...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Seems kinda strange to me that a iconic American organization would not welcome some iconic American firearms such as the Colt 1911 series or say a Smith & Wesson K or J frame revolver...

Also it seems to be a disservice to those who chose to carry a 1911 style pistol or a revolver ... If the class and instructors are as good as the propaganda claims ... Then even if a student carries a "non-favored" gun , the student can still learn something new.
But what do I know?
Andy

 

[HuckleberryFun]

So, let's see. Two of the greatest guns of all time --the 1911 and the Smith & Wesson J and K frames-- are not allowed, but the absolute worst pistols of modern times are? Yay for the "voluntarily recalled" Remington R51! Yay for the Bersa .380 with your 50% failure rate. You move to the head of the class. Sorry John Moses Browning, you wear a dunce cap in the corner of the class because NRA teacher went to some gun teaching seminar and says you need a "time out". Crap modern designs rule the playground!

What's behind this? The NRA is so corrupt with so many competing interests lobbying for control that it's hard to say which gun manufacturer paid the most to eliminate the competition.
There are times I am truly embarrassed to be an NRA member.

 

[etrain16]

A couple of thoughts on this. First, for anyone that doesn't like the rule, don't take their class. It's voluntary (and pretty costly). You could instead, if you want this kind of training, go through the USCCA as they've now partnered with Rob Pincus. Still spends classes with them, but your 1911 and wheelguns are allowed.

Now I'm just guessing here, but since the 1911's and revolvers hold less than many others carry guns, and also have to be handled a bit differently, they probably excluded them in favor of working with what more folks carry - higher cap, striker fired (most likely) guns.

I don't think this is the NRA saying that 1911's and revolvers are bad choices to carry, I think it's some person trying to make these classes as cookie-cutter as possible. Which, I think, is a bad decision, but I think trying to draw a conclusion that the NRA has something against 1911's or revolvers is quite a stretch.

I have taken a number of defensive pistol classes. In each of those classes, we had folks with 1911's and revolvers, though the majority (85%) were shooting Glocks, M&P's and the like. What I noticed is they moved the 1911 shooters to one end of the line and the revolvers to the other end. Those small groups had slightly different instruction, and at times, the revolver shooters especially, ended up holding the class up a bit because they had to reload more often than the rest of us. Trying to keep 20 folks all firing the same number of rounds at the same time is difficult when the capacity is lower. Same kind of went for the 1911 shooters and the lower capacity guns. And while that could be said for a little Shield too, I only saw one of those in my classes - all the rest were double stack. 1911 is different from a lot of guns too in that you need to (to be effective), carry it cocked and locked - which meant the instructors were paying particular attention to the safe handling of those guns. There is also a bit of a difference in the triggers between those guns - a revolver trigger (heavy pull) vs 1911 (light SA pull) vs striker guns (medium to light pull) and each have a different feeling reset - and feeling that reset was a focus point for these classes. That said, we all got through the class safely, with some minimal interruptions. I'm guessing whoever is running the NRA class is looking at that and perhaps wanting to minimize those disruptions?

I belong to the NRA for 2 main reasons - their lobbying efforts in Wa DC, which, to date are still unmatched in power and influence by any other pro-gun lobbying group. And secondly, for their emphasis on safety and training around the country. As for the rest of the stuff - I don't like the fundraising I don't like that they don't always fully support our rights as I would like them supported. I don't care for LaPierre and how he's running things.

But until there is a better alternative, one that has the power of the NRA to block congress from doing stupid things, I will remain a member. Don't like them, don't join. Just remember, there is no other lobby, yet, that has their power. Too bad 95% of gun owners in America don't belong - imagine they pull they could have not only in Washington DC, but around the country if they had 95,000,000 members instead of just 5,000,000.

All that aside, I think it is a foolish idea to exclude those guns from the classes. I think it will backfire and eventually they will have to include them if they want the business they're hoping to get. I honestly don't know how many people carry 1911's and revolvers, though I'm willing to bet it's a small percentage of the overall carry types. If not, then the people that carry those guns will probably make their voices known to the NRA and perhaps the NRA will offer some classes just for those gun types. This is all new anyway, so I expect there will be some adjusting of how this is done as time passes.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

A couple of thoughts on this. First, for anyone that doesn't like the rule, don't take their class. It's voluntary (and pretty costly). You could instead, if you want this kind of training, go through the USCCA as they've now partnered with Rob Pincus. Still spends classes with them, but your 1911 and wheelguns are allowed.

Now I'm just guessing here, but since the 1911's and revolvers hold less than many others carry guns, and also have to be handled a bit differently, they probably excluded them in favor of working with what more folks carry - higher cap, striker fired (most likely) guns.

I don't think this is the NRA saying that 1911's and revolvers are bad choices to carry, I think it's some person trying to make these classes as cookie-cutter as possible. Which, I think, is a bad decision, but I think trying to draw a conclusion that the NRA has something against 1911's or revolvers is quite a stretch.

I have taken a number of defensive pistol classes. In each of those classes, we had folks with 1911's and revolvers, though the majority (85%) were shooting Glocks, M&P's and the like. What I noticed is they moved the 1911 shooters to one end of the line and the revolvers to the other end. Those small groups had slightly different instruction, and at times, the revolver shooters especially, ended up holding the class up a bit because they had to reload more often than the rest of us. Trying to keep 20 folks all firing the same number of rounds at the same time is difficult when the capacity is lower. Same kind of went for the 1911 shooters and the lower capacity guns. And while that could be said for a little Shield too, I only saw one of those in my classes - all the rest were double stack. 1911 is different from a lot of guns too in that you need to (to be effective), carry it cocked and locked - which meant the instructors were paying particular attention to the safe handling of those guns. That said, we all got through the class safely, with some minimal interruptions. I'm guessing whoever is running the NRA class is looking at that and perhaps wanting to minimize those disruptions?

I belong to the NRA for 2 main reason - their lobbying efforts in Wa DC, which, to date are still unmatched in power and influence by any other pro-gun lobbying group. And secondly, for their emphasis on safety and training around the country. As for the rest of the stuff - I don't like the fundraising I don't like that they don't always fully support our rights as I would like them supported. I don't care for LaPierre and how he's running things.

But until there is a better alternative, one that has the power of the NRA to block congress from doing stupid things, I will remain a member. Don't like them, don't join. Just remember, there is no other lobby, yet, that has their power. Too bad 95% of gun owners in America don't belong - imagine they pull they could have not only in Washington DC, but around the country if they had 95,000,000 members instead of just 5,000,000.

All that aside, I think it is a foolish idea to exclude those guns from the classes. I think it will backfire and eventually they will have to include them if they want the business they're hoping to get. I honestly don't know how many people carry 1911's and revolvers, though I'm willing to bet it's a small percentage of the overall carry types. If not, then the people that carry those guns will probably make their voices known to the NRA and perhaps the NRA will offer some classes just for those gun types. This is all new anyway, so I expect there will be some adjusting of how this is done as time passes.

Damn you, @etrain16
Do you ever get tired of being the Voice of Reason?

 

[etrain16]

Damn you, @etrain16
Do you ever get tired of being the Voice of Reason?

Oh, I'm unreasonable plenty of times - just ask my wife

I just have my own POV on the issue. I'm not an NRA hater, nor an NRA lover. I think they have their place, so I support them for that reason.

As to this issue, I just happen to have had experience where I saw the impact (though relatively small) those particular guns had on some training classes. Just thought it might be good to have that perspective in case it shines some light on their decisions. I do think the NRA needs to make allowances for the 1911's and revolvers though - it won't do well for them to leave them out. I suspect, in time, they will find a way to accommodate them too. If not, they'll just piss off more potential members.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I think a key component to a firearms class is as etrain said : not to have it be a "cookie cutter class".
If you are teaching a firearms class , you and your instructors need to be intimately familiar with all firearms and their idiosyncrasies .
( Which is why I don't teach a firearms class... )
Also you need to leave your firearm prejudices at the door.
Andy

 

[etrain16]

I think a key component to a firearms class is as etrain said : not to have it be a "cookie cutter class".
If you are teaching a firearms class , you and your instructors need to be intimately familiar with all firearms and their idiosyncrasies .
Also you need to leave your firearm prejudices at the door.
Andy

Fully agree!

 

[etrain16]

I think a key component to a firearms class is as etrain said : not to have it be a "cookie cutter class".
If you are teaching a firearms class , you and your instructors need to be intimately familiar with all firearms and their idiosyncrasies .
( Which is why I don't teach a firearms class... )
Also you need to leave your firearm prejudices at the door.
Andy

I don't see anything about excluding single shot BP pistols. Maybe you should sign up!

 

[DuneHopper]

Why I think the NRA serves a massive purpose it would be nice if we would have them just simply do the job that we really want them to do and that is protect the rights that we need I find it interesting this year why we are looking at suppressors that need to be addressed and laws passed so we can have our hearing back while we're using our Firearms but instead we see Mass amounts of work by the NRA to gather funds and to presents issues like this it really that important, I mean it it's an important cause but at the same point we need our rights secured why we have enough a chance at all right now with the current Administration we actually could make some progress if we didn't waste all of our resources trying to find out what firearm to use . Seems even in Oregon we are having the same issue not focusing and not doing what needs to get done instead making it look like we're doing something while we're actually accomplishing very little to affect the overall outcome that you and I need to happen.

 

[Medic!]

Yes. But look at the bright side.
Airsoft guns are permitted.

 

[DeanfromOregon]

In some states a revolver may be all they have left to shoot at some point. I just got a few again and resumed double action training.

 

[Diamondback]

Pincus too *discourages* anything but Tactical Tupperware and will keep repeatedly trying to show you why he's right and you're wrong, but he'll still "let" you shoot with a 1911 or revolver.

Eff that sh*t, I'm keeping my loyalties with Marty & Mas.

 

[RVTECH]

I do think the NRA needs to make allowances for the 1911's and revolvers though - it won't do well for them to leave them out.

Yea - pretty Gol Dang arrogant if ya ask me!

 

[etrain16]

Yea - pretty Gol Dang arrogant if ya ask me!

I don't know if it's arrogance or perhaps laziness. They will have to provide additional instruction to a group if folks are using different guns. Maybe it's just that they feel they'll get more from the striker-fired group and don't want to be bothered with the others. Either way, I think the decision will somehow bit them in the butt.

 

[DeanfromOregon]

Decockers are next!

 

[RVTECH]

Maybe it's just that they feel they'll get more from the striker-fired group and don't want to be bothered with the others.

I agree - probably just streamlining but they will still probably loose some potential students - and at $850 for three days I would think they would want to extend to anyone and everyone they could!

 

[nammac]

Decockers are next!

 

[etrain16]

I was going to say something about Bruce Jenner, but I should probably pass...