Stopping power vs. Lethality - caught on camera

[F2CMaDMaXX]

He flinches his shoulders as he draws, and as he still had his hand behind him as he advanced towards the trooper, i will guarantee the trooper drew his weapon and fired it as the 3rd party brought his gun round, which i believe is what caused him to flinch.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I guarantee that the trooper's weapon was already lined up, with him behind cover, when the baddie didn't show his hands and or get back in his car. boom boom

 

[Ironbar]

You can just about see the "doh!" when dead man accidentally drops his magazine.

And in case anyone was wondering, it's at the 0.33 second mark in the video. I didn't catch that before!

 

[simon99]

Anyone that has been in combat during Iraq/stan knows that most Taliban fighters ( thanks to a heavy dose of drugs pre-battle) rarely go down quickly with a single shot center mass. Unless you hit the T, brain stem, or have a clean head shot both of which is difficult in a firefight, you put a few rounds downrange into your target and let the minutes tick by while the bad guy bleeds out. That's what happened to the guy in this video. I'm not familiar with the situation, but he probably expired a few miles down the road. Too bad he had to take the cowardly way out in front of his children.

 

[oregonty]

Looks like the cop got damn lucky. When the guy drops his mag in front of the squad car he only has the chambered round. He then goes after the cop, behind the squad car, and fires one round. Now his gun is empty and he realizes what he did. Then he goes for the magazine, picks it up, places it in the gun and fails to chamber a new round. You can see him then point it back at the cop and try to shoot again. Click.....no boom. Cop gut lucky, two times. This could have been a completely different situation if the bad guy did not make those mistakes.

Talk about a scary event. WOW! Glad the officer and kids were not physically hurt.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

C'mon you haters and deniers... If the trooper had been flinging .45ACP+P CorBon 230gr JHP traveling @ 1100+FPS, all that would have been needed was a push broom, a couple plastic garbage bags, and a hose to spray away the poop and innards sucked out of the bad guy's back from the exit wound!

That's been my experience.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Looks like the cop got damn lucky. When the guy drops his mag in front of the squad car he only has the chambered round. He then goes after the cop, behind the squad car, and fires one round. Now his gun is empty and he realizes what he did. Then he goes for the magazine, picks it up, places it in the gun and fails to chamber a new round. You can see him then point it back at the cop and try to shoot again. Click.....no boom. Cop gut lucky, two times. This could have been a completely different situation if the bad guy did not make those mistakes.

Talk about a scary event. WOW! Glad the officer and kids were not physically hurt.

He also failed to signal when he pulled back into the traffic lane to speed away.

 

[2506]

Science!

Dr Andreas Grabinsky on Gunshot Wounds - YouTube

 

[Certaindeaf]

At least the copper didn't have far to fight to his rifle.

 

[Both Eyes Open]

so does anyone know if this guy was military or was he just dressed the part???

 

[jjackffrost]

Watched a guy take 3 5.56 in the chest and still empty his AK before he went down. If the guy has enough adrenaline in him it will take a well placed kill shot to take him out (like a dinosaur he is dead just too stupid to know it)

 

[guyfromChina]

He was in the Army, don't know if was active

 

[guyfromChina]

one report said he made 1/2 mile, another said 1/4

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Unless you get a direct hit to the brain or heart, they'll keep going until the bleed out internally. Crazy watching that video and knowing the guy running back to his car is dead, and just doesn't know it yet.

Just dumb luck whether a good center mass shot nicks his aorta, pierces his lungs or puts a hole right in the heart. Perhaps a 45 would have not allowed him time to make it back to the car but I think he would have been able to squeeze off another round or two still.

 

[taylor]

Wasn't there a thread recently where a cop was in a shootout with a badguy(not on drugs) and put something like 15 rounds into him? he finally bled out in the ambulance.

 

[guyfromChina]

I think from a tactical POV the perp is just standing there like a big dumb target and his shooting range stance is ridiculous in an up close gun fight, his presentation is telegraphed and either get out of the car shooting from the get go or play innocent & friendly waiting to get into contact distance before making your move.

Thank God for the trooper that this guy was an idiot in addition to being nuts because an intelligent nut is really dangerous.

I know that we can't see what the trooper was doing and armchair quarterbacking isn't very nice but I see several big mistakes here.

When the guy closes the car door the officer should have used the words "...or I will shoot you" The preamble could have been show me your hands, put your hands on the car, get on your knees, get back in the car, don't move or I'll...

4 seconds pass between the beginning of his advance and the first shot and the officer issues no command during that time. So either he was drawing his own weapon during the advance -- which means he really messed up at the beginning...

Or

The officer had his gun drawn the whole time and went into an adrenaline brain freeze during the advance which was clearly hostile. My guess the officer is a vet and he recognized the suspect as a fellow vet and that made him a bit softer and slower in his reactions.

The first time the officer addresses the guy as "Sir" it is a verbal escalation which is then ignored a second time and the officer is clearly in an adrenaline dump for "Sir" #3 which is more plaintive than commanding. His brain is clearly not accepting what is happening. I don't blame him most people wouldn't do any better. We should spend the money that gets blown on APC's and other toys that have a one-in-a-million chance of being necessary and instead spend some serious money giving every officer lots of expensive life fire simmunition scenario training.

The above mistakes are more at the feet of the police agency the the individual officer, but the worst mistake is all on the officer. He stopped fighting. And then allowed an attempted cop killer to escape. Whether with his gun or with the cruiser he should not have allowed the guy to get back in his car. Basically the officer got very lucky because a perp who was less of a dufus could have had the officer dead to rights.

 

[phidelt208]

Shot placement, not caliber, carried the day. One guy lived because of it, and one didn't. I don't think caliber (9mm, .357 sig, .40, 10mm, .45) would have changed much here.

+1
This has been show many times over & over. It is funny people still believe caliber makes a difference.

 

[jbett98]

The hit was good enough to make him bleed out within moments and yet when hit with the "unquestionable" power of the .40 the guy seemed completely unaffected...

Uhm.. thats cause handgun bullets regardless of caliber poke itty bitty holes in the body and there are many places in the body that isn't such a big deal and only a few places that could have instant effect.

Mostly a "drop" is the psycho / physiological phenomena known as the vasovagal response i.e. they faint.

So if you're saying that if you knew what caliber you were being shot with, you'd be more likely to faint if it was a dreaded .40 then ok...

If this happened in China, how would it have played out?

 

[Misterbill]

There is no gun that you could conceivably carry that will guarantee a one-shot stop. NONE. Not a .44 magnum, not a S&W .500.

"Stopping power" has a lot of variables, but even with the "best" out there, shot-placement is king and may STILL not be enough, even with 2-3 in the heart.

• Dedicated attacker
• Drugged or mentally ill attacker under massive adrenaline loads
• Unlucky shot (through and through missing most of the vital organs)
• Very large man whose fat absorbs a lot of the power

And on and on infinitum to possible variables.

Two to three shots, well-placed in the center of the thoracic cavity will stop most people, most of the time, though rarely instantly, usually quick enough to end the fight. That's as true with 9mm as it is with .45 ACP or 10mm unless you're using sub-standard defensive loads. Even .380 will work more often than not.

But nothing works all the time. And virtually nothing but a head-shot that's right into the occular cavity will "put out the lights" instantly.

I recommend people carry the largest, fastest round they can control with absolute reliability that's got some data behind it. 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm, .357 Sig, .38 special, .357 magnum, .41 Magnum all meet this criteria. They've all killed a hell of a lot of bad guys and stopped an awful lot of fights.
.380 is fine too as a compromise round for concealability.

Now it's a matter of what you can shoot well and afford to practice with regularly, which makes .41 mag, 10mm and .357 Sig not the best choice for many because of cost. Some people really have trouble controlling the 10mm and .45, others don't shoot revolvers worth a darn.

At that point, it's a purely personal decision. I'd feel no less safe based on round alone, with any I've mentioned except possibly the .380 and that's a gun I use strictly because the alternative is NO gun, usually based on pure convenience.

Unless someone is going to start the idiotic ".22 Lr is just as good as .45" argument again caliber wars are silly. Mouse-guns like the .22 .25 auto or .32 auto have a pretty crappy record at center-mass stops. But I'd rather have a .22 than bare hands. the others are proven show-stoppers, but there ain't no "magic" bullet out there. -Unless you can carry a .50 BMG on your hip. -That's a one-shot stopper. -Most of the time.

 

[CoastRange57]

Anyone that has been in combat during Iraq/stan knows that most Taliban fighters ( thanks to a heavy dose of drugs pre-battle) rarely go down quickly with a single shot center mass. Unless you hit the T, brain stem, or have a clean head shot both of which is difficult in a firefight, you put a few rounds downrange into your target and let the minutes tick by while the bad guy bleeds out. That's what happened to the guy in this video. I'm not familiar with the situation, but he probably expired a few miles down the road. Too bad he had to take the cowardly way out in front of his children.

The ragheads would get all jacked up on meth and then go out. Sometimes if they were crashing doors, the first guy through may have had a Marine issue Berrata 9mm. Seems like they were not very effective on the tweaking raghead.

I have heard that some people may have sent alternatives over in different mailings, and that some 1911 .45's started showing up in holsters. Seems they were a bit more effective than the 9mm, or so I have heard.

In this case, likely a sucking chest wound, and you can go just a bit before you drown in your own blood. This video clearly shows how fast these things happen and how fast you have to decide. I am thinking that the cop had a very big "Oh sh*t" moment when that dude in BDU's got out and posed up.