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Stopping power vs. Lethality - caught on camera

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by SomeDude, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. SomeDude

    SomeDude Portland, OR Reclaimer

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    The police dash cam footage was released today of the late August incident on I-84. I just saw this on the news and didn't realize at the time what it was. I just thought "Wow, there's no way the cop didn't get shot", then thought "Holy hell, how did the bad guy escape without being shot?"
    Well as we know, the bad guy indeed WAS shot. Fatally. Yet somehow he escaped the scene and was able to drive his car down the road a ways. I didn't see any account of what caliber it was but I assume .40. It just goes to show how inane all the arguments about stopping power of different pistol rounds are. I think this should be a big reality check on what happens in real world shootouts vs. All the long-range, one-shot, instant kills that happen with handguns on our TV screens.

    Dashcam vid: Suspect opens fire on trooper in deadly shootout - KPTV - FOX 12
     
  2. SomeDude

    SomeDude Portland, OR Reclaimer

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    By the way, I'd like to keep the conversation on what we can learn about this from a self-defense perspective if possible. Its obvious this man was mentally ill and extremely tragic that his kids were in the car. The events look pretty cut-and-dried. I just don't want this to devolve into the type of crap that takes place in the comments section in the article I linked to. Not that I think this audience is that low-functioning as anonymous internet commenters.
     
  3. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that one could have gone either way.

    Yeah, I didn't notice any wound in the bad guy either. Sure didn't seem to slow him down much right away.
     
  4. Hrethgir

    Hrethgir Beaverton, OR Active Member

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    Yeah, one-shot kills like you see on tv and movies and video games are not realistic. A lot of home defense ones I've heard go like this: bad guy breaks into house, homeowner shoots the bad guy, bad guy runs off and is found dead a couple blocks away. Unless you get a direct hit to the brain or heart, they'll keep going until the bleed out internally. Crazy watching that video and knowing the guy running back to his car is dead, and just doesn't know it yet.
     
  5. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    OK, my takeaway: The minute you see the hand behind the back and the weird attitude, it's time to draw and aim.
     
  6. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    The guy was askin to be engaged even B-4 he drew & fired at the SP. Good shoot all the way around!!!
     
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  7. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    I'd be interested to know how many times the cop fired and if he remembered which round was the kill shot..... maybe first shot and recoil & flyers? Or last shot? I agree, the cop had good cause to shoot earlier on this one.

    Brutus Out
     
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  8. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    Bad guy did a mag drop right in the middle of bustin caps...opps:huh:

    This guy had kids in the car, sad...
     
  9. SomeDude

    SomeDude Portland, OR Reclaimer

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    Yeah, I didn't read how many rounds actually struck him besides the fatal one. Obviously several were fired.

    It also says the cop was hit in the chest but not seriously injured. I would assume that's because he was wearing armor but the article didn't explain that. There seems to be a lot the article didn't explain actually. Most cops carry .40, right?
     
  10. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    OSP swapped from Glock 22's to M&P 40 cals a few years ago. Trooper was hit in the lower abdomen and suspect in the chest.
     
  11. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    practice firing under stress cause if you don't hit a CNS the criminal isn't going down immediately and can still fight or flee. It doesn't matter what caliber you use if you hit your mark.
     
  12. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    Shot placement, not caliber, carried the day. One guy lived because of it, and one didn't. I don't think caliber (9mm, .357 sig, .40, 10mm, .45) would have changed much here.
     
  13. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    So much for .40's "stopping power".
     
  14. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I was just confirming it was a .40 caliber OSP was using.
     
  15. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    False statement. Even with hits like this a man can function. The heart would have to substain extreme damage for a direct hit to drop a man instantly. (think a kill shot on a deer)
    The only quarenteed kill shot is the brain stem. figure maybe a 1/2 inch sq target.

    As to the event to me it appears as a suicide by cop. There are a lot of questions the video does not answer.
    But i really feel for the kids.
     
  16. Ironbar

    Ironbar Tigard, OR Well-Known Member

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    OK, did you just completely miss the point of the 13 posts ahead of yours?
     
  17. Boats

    Boats Flicking A Switch To Open My Third Eye Well-Known Member

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    All handguns suck as man stoppers. They are far better than nothing though.
     
  18. guyfromChina

    guyfromChina Originally:Indiana, Currently: China, Soon: Oregon New Member

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    The hit was good enough to make him bleed out within moments and yet when hit with the "unquestionable" power of the .40 the guy seemed completely unaffected...

    Uhm.. thats cause handgun bullets regardless of caliber poke itty bitty holes in the body and there are many places in the body that isn't such a big deal and only a few places that could have instant effect.

    Mostly a "drop" is the psycho / physiological phenomena known as the vasovagal response i.e. they faint.

    So if you're saying that if you knew what caliber you were being shot with, you'd be more likely to faint if it was a dreaded .40 then ok...
     
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  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    You can just about see the "doh!" when dead man accidentally drops his magazine.
     
  20. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    C'mon you haters and deniers... If the trooper had been flinging .45ACP+P CorBon 230gr JHP traveling @ 1100+FPS, all that would have been needed was a push broom, a couple plastic garbage bags, and a hose to spray away the poop and innards sucked out of the bad guy's back from the exit wound!

    ;)