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So does anyone still believe in the Theory of evolution ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by jib, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    I find it strange that this theory is accepted as fact, yet it was founded by those who had little comprehension of the cell and its complexities.

    I see variations with in species which is called natural selection, but when this is extrapolated to suggest that species evolve from other species it just doesn't add up.

    I known about those transitional species and they are few and far between and are subject to scrutiny, the fossil record should be full of such transitional life forms, how do they elude the fossil record ?

    So here's the deal,
    Climate gate got me thinkin, here we have a bunch of scientist that are paid to prove that man caused CO2 emissions are warming the planet, and guess what they found ?
    So I am just wondering how deep does this rabbit hole of disinformation goes.

    I look forward to hearing your opinion.
     
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  2. saabin

    saabin Eugene Active Member

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    I think its far more plausible then the bogie man in the sky made it all as is where is in six days then took a nap theory.
     
  3. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Evolution is an observable and provable fact. We've seen species react to stimuli and evolve into new forms on the bacterial level many times. We've also observed natural selection change entire species (wolves-> different species of dogs due to selection criteria, the imminent extinction of red heads). The extrapolation from a few hundred years of observed evolution adds up perfectly. The earth has been around for millions of years, evolution has been happening ever since the beginning of the planet, and is the reason all life exists in its current form.

    The reason the fossil record lacks many 'transitional life forms' (which is a ridiculous term in its own right), is because the non-scientific community is outrageously burdensome in that regard. Fossil records are extremely incomplete (we've found, what, 100 examples of T-Rex, but we're pretty sure that millions existed!), and every time we find a new one the non-scientific community requests 'the missing link'. They won't be satisfied until science has found every living thing that ever existed as a fossil, and even then I'm not sure.

    Just a quick "FYI". For a fossil to form, a specimen must find itself captured under extremely specific circumstances. Basically they have to fall into a river bed and have their body covered up near-instantly, otherwise they aren't preserved. Even then, the conditions for a fossil to form are extremely unlikely.
     
  4. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    I think the Sumerians had it right. Created as a race of slaves by alien overlords, then set free after a few centuries of faithful labor. It's just as likely as any other creation myth :)

    Greg
     
  5. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    "Evolution is an observable and provable fact. We've seen species react to stimuli and evolve into new forms on the bacterial level many times. We've also observed natural selection change entire species (wolves-> different species of dogs due to selection criteria, the imminent extinction of red heads). The extrapolation from a few hundred years of observed evolution adds up perfectly. The earth has been around for millions of years, evolution has been happening ever since the beginning of the planet, and is the reason all life exists in its current form."

    The bacteria is still bacteria and the canine is still a canine. So where is the evidence for macro evolution.
     
  6. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Some worm puked on a beach and from hence spewage everything sprang into the infinite varieties we enjoy today!! :D
     
  7. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Actually, "canine" is a genus, not a species. The existence of so many species of canine due to human involvement is proof of evolution. And "bacteria is still bacteria" is the exact same thing as saying "an animal is still an animal" or a "plant is still a plant". Bacteria is a genetic Kingdom, it is massively overreaching.

    As for macro-evolution, check out the history of the 'Homo' genus. It is a nice long one filled with many special changes along the way.

    PS: Saying "Macro evolution" makes you sound like an idiot in front of someone who knows what they're talking about. 'Macro' evolution is merely 'micro' evolution over time.
     
  8. saabin

    saabin Eugene Active Member

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    Scientists generally agree that birds likely evolved from dinosaurs. Winged and feathered small dinosaurs have been found in the fossil record.

    Nova special on hulu about feathered fossil
     
  9. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    The sober man has better evidence than me...
     
  10. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    "PS: Saying "Macro evolution" makes you sound like an idiot"

    Keana,

    Since you are so much more intelligent than I, perhaps you could enlighten me on how life began on our planet ?
     
  11. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    To the original question, yes I do believe in evolution. Like any theory it lacks 100% proof because mutations are hard to prove unless there were someone to witness them and we will never have that proof as it is lost to history. Mutations can and have been shown to happen even now and that is the best evidence of evolution. The earth is a living organism and we are just along for the ride.

    BTW, I hope this thread doesn't "devolve" so to speak into a evolution vs creation thread as it will violate forum rules.
    .
     
  12. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    You're the meanest, most insensitive butthead God ever created! :p
     
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  13. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Well jib (see, I spelled your name right! Thats gotta be worth something!),
    I realize I came off harshly, however I was trying to give advice for this conversation in the future. "Macro/Micro" evolution is a term that is used as an identifier by those who have studied the topic that the arguer knows nothing of the topic.

    Life on earth has pretty humble beginnings. After the beginning of the universe, all of the planets were in a molten and transitional state where many unstable atoms were breaking apart at a high rate of speed. Due to this, there was a lot of carbon and hydrogen hanging around. The free-floating carbon would chain, and fill its remaining bonds with hyrdogen. Occasionally it would fill some of its bonds with other materials.

    Due to the scale and count of this (law of large numbers!), as well as the fact that they are fairly naturally stable, these carbons formed what are known as amino acids (the building blocks of all life!). These amino acids would then arrange into their naturally stable forms, resulting in a few key enzymes, as well as a primitive form of RNA. This happened across the universe an uncountable amount of times.

    At least once, these few key enzymes met with a string of RNA that contained coding regions that resulted in more creation of these enzymes, which were responsible for 'reading' RNA. From there reproduction was possible on the viral/bacterial level, and is the beginning of life.

    Basically the answer is: Atoms arranged themselves into common and stable arrangements over and over, until they 'lucked' into something that could reproduce. Thanks to the law of large numbers (there were an uncountable number of chances for this to happen on each planet, all across the universe!), this happened at least once, resulting in life on earth.
     
  14. saabin

    saabin Eugene Active Member

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    Are you certain he is not the meanest, most insensitive butthead to ever evolve out of the primordial ooze? :p
     
  15. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    The existence of current 'mutation' in response to external stimuli IS evolution. What I think the OP is arguing against is a specific series of evolutions that are posited as the cause of human life on earth. Evolution HAS proof as it has been observed and proved many times. The origin of humanity IS a theory, though is widely regarded as equal to gravity as far as 'proof' goes.

    PS: I apologize to all for some of the tone I took above, I didn't mean it how it sounded.
     
  16. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    "I hope this thread doesn't "devolve" so to peak into a evolution vs creation thread as it will violate forum rules."

    I thought I posted this in the "Off Topic" forum ?

    How is this different from discussing AGW ?

    What we are brought up to believe effects how free we live.
     
  17. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Oh brother... the only thing worse to argue on a forum than science vs anti-science is forum rules with a moderator. I'm out.
     
  18. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    "Well jib (see, I spelled your name right! Thats gotta be worth something!),"

    My bad,

    Thanks for your response,

    If DNA is the program for the cell telling the building blocks of the cell what to do, how does DNA exist without the cell and how can a cell be made without DNA ?
     
  19. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    No apologies necessary, it is an interesting thread.
     
  20. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    "Oh brother... the only thing worse to argue on a forum than science vs anti-science is forum rules with a moderator. I'm out. "

    You are wise to opp out.

    My last question has never been answered.
     
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