Slow down people...breathe

[CamoDeafie]

Like cockroaches, some of those microbes can only be eliminated by a 4000F earth-scorching thermobaric munition.

True. On the other hand... baking soda and water does a lot for dried cat piss and mildew. It might work as one component of a systemic route, the other components could be white vinegar but that stuff hurts on open wounds and sore. Actually, those heavy duty foam spraying trucks for fire suppression? Do the soapy water from them and make a party of it after all, soapy foam rooms was the rage in certain bars and places like Tiki Bobs in Myrtle Beach LOL ( @wired Is that place still there?)

 

[po18guy]

The Constitution is a nice manifesto with a lot of high-mined ideals, almost none of which have been attained. Without getting into a theosophical debate, frankly we get our rights solely from our willingness to defend them. Ultimately, the state has the power to crush the citizen into compliance with its imprimatur from the people, whose only requirement is bread and circuses. And now we have the oligarchs, the useful idiots in the Fourth Estate, and the proletariat spewing woke dogma and guzzling the endless supply of Kool Aid to contend with. Even Orwell could not have imagined this one.

A man far smarter than me once said "we get the government we deserve." What this means to me is it is our charge — we the rational plain dealers, the citizens of good will — to persuade "the people." Persuade them to absolutely pay attention to the man behind the curtain. I believe objective reason can win the day, but only if is delivered with the intent to build a bridge, not blow one up.

So the mafia generates its own rights? After all, they vociferously defend them.

 

[wired]

True. On the other hand... baking soda and water does a lot for dried cat piss and mildew. It might work as one component of a systemic route, the other components could be white vinegar but that stuff hurts on open wounds and sore. Actually, those heavy duty foam spraying trucks for fire suppression? Do the soapy water from them and make a party of it after all, soapy foam rooms was the rage in certain bars and places like Tiki Bobs in Myrtle Beach LOL ( @wired Is that place still there?)

I dont even remember the last time I was in a bar. I was never a good natured bar goer. Either I was there to pick up girls or to get into a fight and I'm past my prime for either plus my wife frowns on me picking up girls. I can't stand Myrtle Beach. What a scuzzy place. Not like Daytona Beach scuzzy but scuzzy nonetheless. I was in Virginia Beach fishing yesterday and if you took me and Howard Hughes'd me from Virginia Beach to Myrtle Beach I couldnt tell you which was which.

I'm considering a position in the Chesapeake Bay area running a cold storage facility. The wife says she doesn't know about living in a tourist town . I told her I had lived in a few growing up and we had a poem dealing with such.

Tourists go home
Leave your daughters.

The wife was unimpressed.

 

[powersbj]

I have a dream, where little plastic wrapped guns will shoot with little wood wrapped guns, where their owners will watch them shoot together. Where tactcool LARPers will play with Old West LARPers and hunters will finally shoot a semi auto. Where trap shooters will enter a pistol competition and when we go to a idpa shoot the guy who trys to tell you how you would have died if it was real didn't show up any more... I have a dream of world full of 9mm 556 and 45 ammo, powder, primers and bullets flow like a river...

But mostly.... when the heck did plywood hit 90 a sheet?

But seriously the year of Seattle and Portland riots woke up alot of people across the political spectrum. There is some opportunity there, but the gun community is lacking a strong national leader.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

So the mafia generates its own rights? After all, they vociferously defend them.

I'm afraid that's a bit of a straw man fallacy. That said, criminals can certainly act to defend their constitutional rights.

 

[Ridge Walker]

I have a dream, where little plastic wrapped guns will shoot with little wood wrapped guns, where their owners will watch them shoot together. Where tactcool LARPers will play with Old West LARPers and hunters will finally shoot a semi auto. Where trap shooters will enter a pistol competition and when we go to a idpa shoot the guy who trys to tell you how you would have died if it was real didn't show up any more... I have a dream of world full of 9mm 556 and 45 ammo, powder, primers and bullets flow like a river...

But mostly.... when the heck did plywood hit 90 a sheet?

But seriously the year of Seattle and Portland riots woke up alot of people across the political spectrum. There is some opportunity there, but the gun community is lacking a strong national leader.

Well apparently the Criminal Community has many.

 

[wired]

I have a dream, where little plastic wrapped guns will shoot with little wood wrapped guns, where their owners will watch them shoot together. Where tactcool LARPers will play with Old West LARPers and hunters will finally shoot a semi auto. Where trap shooters will enter a pistol competition and when we go to a idpa shoot the guy who trys to tell you how you would have died if it was real didn't show up any more... I have a dream of world full of 9mm 556 and 45 ammo, powder, primers and bullets flow like a river...

But mostly.... when the heck did plywood hit 90 a sheet?

But seriously the year of Seattle and Portland riots woke up alot of people across the political spectrum. There is some opportunity there, but the gun community is lacking a strong national leader.

When was the last strong leader of the gun community? Heston was a weak figurehead. We've never had much of a firearms friendly President other than Theodore Roosevelt.

 

[powersbj]

When was the last strong leader of the gun community? Heston was a weak figurehead. We've never had much of a firearms friendly President other than Theodore Roosevelt.

I can't think of one. I wonder how effective unifying lobby groups politically would be, instead of individuals.

 

[RVTECH]

Heston was a weak figurehead. We've never had much of a firearms friendly President other than Theodore Roosevelt.

Heston was the Prez of the NRA and TR was the prez of the US - neither could really be considered 'leaders' of the 'gun community' which is nothing more than a generic term that is applied to gun owners in general.

SO that being the case who or what organization could be considered the best leader/spokesman for the 'gun community' ?

What credentials/experience should this person have to be able to speak for and represent ALL members of the gun community - regardless of what end of the 'spectrum' they are on?

Hint - I can probably guess more than a few names that might be suggested but if they are part of the many, so called gun 'spokespeople' we see and hear regularly I doubt they would qualify.

 

[WillametteWill]

When was the last strong leader of the gun community?

It is difficult because of our diversity as a community of what, 100,000,000 or more folks. My vote is for Colion Noir as president of the NRA though. Uncompromising for 2A issues, has the ability to talk with and reach many communities, attorney so understands legal concepts more than many. We are never going to gel completely, too large of a group...like any group. So let's focus on being the most effective we can be. WLP is not that person anymore.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Heston was the Prez of the NRA and TR was the prez of the US - neither could really be considered 'leaders' of the 'gun community' which is nothing more than a generic term that is applied to gun owners in general.

SO that being the case who or what organization could be considered the best leader/spokesman for the 'gun community' ?

What credentials/experience should this person have to be able to speak for and represent ALL members of the gun community - regardless of what end of the 'spectrum' they are on?

Hint - I can probably guess more than a few names that might be suggested but if they are part of the many, so called gun 'spokespeople' we see and hear regularly I doubt they would qualify.

I'm a life member of the NRA and have sadly watched it go down the tubes as LaPierre and his cadre have turned it into a joke, not to mention their own personal piggy bank. That said, I think the ILA section of the NRA is still useful and worthy of support.

The NSSF does a fine job of advocating for the firearms industry as a trade group, and thus of supporting gun owners -- their customers. Obviously they have a vested interest in keeping firearms lawful. Also, the GOA has taken a lot of membership away from the NRA and with good reason -- they are a rational voice for individual gun rights and seem to run a pretty tight ship.

I think the challenge in finding a "leader" is the diversity of the shooting world. There are dozens of philosophies and practices at play here, all intersecting at one focal point: The Second Amendment. Politically, we gun owners would certainly benefit from a unified voice -- no argument there!

 

[CamoDeafie]

"First they came for the machine guns, silencers, short barreled rifles/shotguns, I did not fight because I did not own these (NFA1934)
then they came for mail order rifles, and set up FFL system, and introduced prohibited persons class, I did not fight because I am not a criminal and I wanted to support local business(GCA1968)
They came next for machine guns made after 1986, I did not fight it, because I could then order rifles in the mail, and travel through States without being arrested (FOPA1986)
When a President banned imports of certain rifles, I did not fight because I don't want these rifles. (GH Bush EO)
When the next President and administration passed a bill that banned "Assault weapons" I did not fight because I don't care for these guns and it did not impact my hunting guns (AWB)"

Now.... almost no one is left to fight for the 2A because we as a group stayed divided on what precisely the 2A means to us.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

"First they came for the machine guns, silencers, short barreled rifles/shotguns, I did not fight because I did not own these (NFA1934)
then they came for mail order rifles, and set up FFL system, and introduced prohibited persons class, I did not fight because I am not a criminal and I wanted to support local business(GCA1968)
They came next for machine guns made after 1986, I did not fight it, because I could then order rifles in the mail, and travel through States without being arrested (FOPA1986)
When a President banned imports of certain rifles, I did not fight because I don't want these rifles. (GH Bush EO)
When the next President and administration passed a bill that banned "Assault weapons" I did not fight because I don't care for these guns and it did not impact my hunting guns (AWB)"

Now.... almost no one is left to fight for the 2A because we as a group stayed divided on what precisely the 2A means to us.

100%. People don't realize their rights only exist because they are willing to defend them. This idea that it doesn't effect me therefore I shall not be bothered is exactly how our rights are stripped from us. The same argument applies to the First Amendment. "I may disagree with what you say, but will fight to the death to defend your right to say it." -Voltaire.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If the 2A had been written like this...

"A free People being necessary for the security of the State, the right of the People to be as well equipped as the standing Armies shall not be infringed" or some such... there might be much less lawyering and vague decisions and bench legislating

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

If the 2A had been written like this...

"A free People being necessary for the security of the State, the right of the People to be as well equipped as the standing Armies shall not be infringed" or some such... there might be much less lawyering and vague decisions and bench legislating

Even that would not be bulletproof. Pun intended. The Constitution still depends on the will of the people to defend it.

 

[CRBMoA]

If the 2A had been written like this...

"A free People being necessary for the security of the State, the right of the People to be as well equipped as the standing Armies shall not be infringed" or some such... there might be much less lawyering and vague decisions and bench legislating

I would offer that in the vernacular of the day, that is precisely what they DID!

Unless they were in fact protecting our right to harvest tasty deer.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I would offer that in the vernacular of the day, that is precisely what they DID!

Unless they were in fact protecting our right to harvest tasty deer.

Indeed, although there's always a "debate" on what precisely the words "people", "keep", "bear", "arms", "militia" means

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Indeed, although there's always a "debate" on what precisely the words "people", "keep", "bear", "arms", "militia" means

Unfortunately all it takes is four more lawyers on the USSC...

 

[nammac]

... but the gun community is lacking a strong national leader.

I nominate Colion Noir....

 

[Kruel J]

I nominate Colion Noir....

I'll second that.