SIG P-320, redux...

[WillametteWill]

It definitely is another level of safety that I think cops could benefit from and in all honesty due to the work conditions I could see it being mandatory as much as I would disagree with that. I understand your standing on the mechanical safety and I totally understand and respect it. I won't carry a gun for EDC that has a safety. With that said my EDC gun doesn't leave the holster and I don't have a light that allows a gap. Plus I carry a platform I trust and have years of experience behind.

If I was to go back into a duty role with how much disrespect there is to law and authority and how often things go hands on and to the ground I would probably go to a platform with a manual safety. Probably a M&P with a safety. But for EDC I don't see a mechanical safety being essential. But I'm also very diligent/aware every time I handle/holster/unholster my gun. Never in a rush.

We are completely on this same page with this. You have always stated and clearly indicated your knowledge of all components of carry and the difference between concealed carry and duty use. You get how all the components from holsters, WMLs, clothing, etc., all play a role when carrying. I don't worry about people like you.

Unfortunately, having talked with enough gun owners, specifically those who carry, and taught/attended enough classes, sadly, you are in the minority. I'm not about mandating anything for anyone (dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery and all), but I try to be pragmatic. I watch 'respected trainers' on the interwebs slamming their SF, safety-less, gun into holsters, knowing they are being watched by young/new, impressionable shooters, and cringe. I think part of the reason we are not hearing hardly at all about issues with the M18/M17 is the mechanical safety difference. (There appear to be nine claims over three years with 500,000 or so guns in service.)

Most gun owners don't train...at all. Many police officers train very little beyond mandated qualifications.

 

[Koda]

if Glock hadnt taken the safety less concept mainstream the training would have continued on and all the most dedicated tactical minded entbusiasts today would still think it crazy to not have one like they did years ago. The whole idea it slows one down is a myth, yet there is a huge safety and even a tactical advantage to manual safties.
It is what it is, i have some strikers without safties, but only because they dont have the option. but I wish they had one.
Even today many training classes wont teach appendix carry to beginners over this... yet somehow the same people who set those classes up swear by safetyless designs.

 

[1775usmc]

We are completely on this same page with this. You have always stated and clearly indicated your knowledge of all components of carry and the difference between concealed carry and duty use. You get how all the components from holsters, WMLs, clothing, etc., all play a role when carrying. I don't worry about people like you.

Unfortunately, having talked with enough gun owners, specifically those who carry, and taught/attended enough classes, sadly, you are in the minority. I'm not about mandating anything for anyone (dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery and all), but I try to be pragmatic. I watch 'respected trainers' on the interwebs slamming their SF, safety-less, gun into holsters, knowing they are being watched by young/new, impressionable shooters, and cringe. I think part of the reason we are not hearing hardly at all about issues with the M18/M17 is the mechanical safety difference. (There appear to be nine claims over three years with 500,000 or so guns in service.)

Most gun owners don't train...at all. Many police officers train very little beyond mandated qualifications.

It's scary to think those same people are out walking amongst us as well as "patrolling" the streets. Major deficiencies in training, gear, ideology, mental thought process, etc. it's an American mentality that I can do what I want, I know all and you can't say sh!t. Which is what I love about this country but it's a double edge sword for sure.

It's also not "cool" nowadays to have a gun with a mechanical safety. For whatever reason people look down on them. For a new shooter/officer/boot I think they're almost essential. I've seen "gun people" ND M9s, M1014s, M4s and tasers, both on the flat range and at the clearing barrel. I've been flagged multiple times by people who claim to be "gun people." Owning and carrying a gun doesn't qualify you for anything.

 

[1775usmc]

if Glock hadnt taken the safety less concept mainstream the training would have continued on and all the most dedicated tactical minded entbusiasts today would still think it crazy to not have one like they did years ago. The whole idea it slows one down is a myth, yet there is a huge safety and even a tactical advantage to manual safties.
It is what it is, i have some strikers without safties, but only because they dont have the option. but I wish they had one.
Even today many training classes wont teach appendix carry to beginners over this... yet somehow the same people who set those classes up swear by safetyless designs.

Safety on a pistol slows me down. I'll be the first one to say it. Now could I put in a ton of training and get past it? Yes. But at this point I don't see it as a worthwhile change in what I am carrying or my training. Now if I was forced to carry a gun with a safety you better believe my training would evolve with that platform as well.

I'm personally glad the external safeties went away or atleast became an option. But with that came a heightened risk for idiots with poor training to shoot themselves or others.

 

[Koda]

Safety on a pistol slows me down. I'll be the first one to say it. Now could I put in a ton of training and get past it? Yes. But at this point I don't see it as a worthwhile change in what I am carrying or my training. Now if I was forced to carry a gun with a safety you better believe my training would evolve with that platform as well.

I'm personally glad the external safeties went away or atleast became an option. But with that came a heightened risk for idiots with poor training to shoot themselves or others.

The only reason safetyless (ie, Glocks) became popular is because its one less step to learn, not because its slower to present the gun. I grew up with a 1911 as my only gun for years until only recently, the safety comes off in the pressout, does not impede time to first shot.

Im not advocating going back, it is what it is and the strikers I have now i learn to use as designed safely. Its just a huge glaringly obvious step backwards in safety due to my experience.

And the whole "cool" factor trend with safetyless is very telling of where the truth lies in this.

 

[1775usmc]

The only reason safetyless (ie, Glocks) became popular is because its one less step to learn, not because its slower to present the gun. I grew up with a 1911 as my only gun for years until only recently, the safety comes off in the pressout, does not impede time to first shot.

Im not advocating going back, it is what it is and the strikers I have now i learn to use as designed safely. Its just a huge glaringly obvious step backwards in safety due to my experience.

And the whole "cool" factor trend with safetyless is very telling of where the truth lies in this.

I'm a lefty. Safeties are normally a problem and get in the way or are not user friendly. It's not until recently all the ambi stuff started coming out.

So for me it is definitely slower and can even create malfunctions.

 

[ma96782]

The gun that allegedly shoots by itself: New Hampshire-based Sig Sauer is fighting for its reputation

MSN

Aloha, Mark

 

[1775usmc]

The gun that allegedly shoots by itself: New Hampshire-based Sig Sauer is fighting for its reputation

MSN

Aloha, Mark

Not possible. This ended months ago.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Not possible. This ended months ago.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz6OGVCdov8

 

[1775usmc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz6OGVCdov8

 

[ma96782]

Caught on camera. Checkout the video.

MSN

Aloha, Mark

 

[DirectDrive]

Caught on camera. Checkout the video.

MSN

Aloha, Mark

By now, everyone knows the drama queen "The Wyoming Wiggler" showing what can be done to ANY striker-fired pistol.

 

[ma96782]

By now, everyone knows the drama queen "The Wyoming Wiggler" showing what can be done to ANY striker-fired pistol.

Really? Does it happen with a Glock?

Aloha, Mark

 

[1775usmc]

Really? Does it happen with a Glock?

Aloha, Mark

Yes. This test proves nothing. Other than the sloppy tolerances of the SIG P320 across the board. They've done this test with almost every striker fired pistol and they all do it at varying pull lengths.

This is coming from someone who would love to see the P320 to be proven defective and for SIG to go out of business. But so far nothing has been shown to prove that these guns go off without some form of a trigger press.

 

[DirectDrive]

Really? Does it happen with a Glock?

Aloha, Mark

Yes.
That video is old news although it still catches the unsuspecting like a ghost net.

All striker guns have some things in common.
The striker lug is in the upper and the sear or pseudo-sear is in the lower.
Therefore you can hold the trigger back to a point just before the break, wiggle the slide and the firing pin will drop.
Right after the Wyoming Wiggler made his video, a couple of guys made another video showing this with most of the popular striker guns. It can be searched up.

The Wiggler's video is just more Youtube drama meant to harvest "clicks".

 

[ma96782]

What I saw was a wiggle possibly due to a poorly fitted slide.

IMHO.....if it happens no matter the BRAND......that's a REAL problem. YES, there is also "tolerance" to contend with.

Mind you that I can remember fitting the slide on my M1911. Yeah.....it's not striker-fired. But getting that slide "tight" was very important to getting more accuracy out of the platform.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....IF Glocks were also having that problem. Wouldn't I also be hearing about that, too?

 

[Koda]

What I saw was a wiggle possibly due to a poorly fitted slide.

IMHO.....if it happens no matter the BRAND......that's a REAL problem.

The thing to remember is its not just a simple wiggle test, they all have to manipulate the trigger to a point the sear engagement is right on the edge of releasing, then the wiggle lets the striker fall. The wiggle test doesn't work unless the trigger is pulled. This test proves nothing other than if you pull the trigger the gun can fire.

 

[1775usmc]

Trigger safeties.

They're there for a reason. Except in the case of a P320 and the bright individuals who decided to delete it…..

The gun works as it was intended and by itself is safe. But it should never have been classified as a "duty" gun. Atleast not in the configuration with ZERO external safeties.

It's a competition style platform wearing a costume of a duty rated platform. That's all. But these issues will continue and the PR department will continue to fumble the ball as they have from its very inception.

 

[ma96782]

The thing to remember is its not just a simple wiggle test, they all have to manipulate the trigger to a point the sear engagement is right on the edge of releasing, then the wiggle lets the striker fall. The wiggle test doesn't work unless the trigger is pulled. This test proves nothing other than if you pull the trigger the gun can fire.

Yup.....I have lots of confidence in the DA/SA trigger pull method. But, as for the "plastic pistols" (no matter the brand) in general? And Sig 320s?

Well, I'm not buying.

That being said.......
Well, I have confidence in the Sig "P" series of their pistols. Ooops......a hammer-fired design with real metal for a frame and slide. Yeah.....I'm old-fashioned. Do I need to apologize for that?

Aloha, Mark

PS......it's not ALL hate for the plastic pistols. For the record. I've owned a couple of Glocks and I still own a KelTec and a Diamondback.

 

[DirectDrive]

What I saw was a wiggle possibly due to a poorly fitted slide.

IMHO.....if it happens no matter the BRAND......that's a REAL problem. YES, there is also "tolerance" to contend with.

Mind you that I can remember fitting the slide on my M1911. Yeah.....it's not striker-fired. But getting that slide "tight" was very important to getting more accuracy out of the platform.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....IF Glocks were also having that problem. Wouldn't I also be hearing about that, too?

View: https://youtu.be/LKD0S3KhwdI?si=2wLNgFDuBNHp1KYz