Poll: Should felons be able to legally own firearms?

[Steve M]

Speeding on the highway is a not a felony and neither is rolling a stop sign! Come on, we're talking a FELONY! Speeding, Jaywalking, shoplifting are NOT felonies! Armed robbery, Murder, Rape, Child molestation etc. You know, the people who when they get out of jail you don't want living next door to your wife & 5 yr old daughter. The people that make every law abiding citizen in the neighborhood go out and buy a gun and learn how to use it.
You need to move away from that city or get involved in politics and get those morons out of office!

The question at hand was disregard for the law. My examples were showing how pretty much everyone has shown disregard for the law at some point and are therefore not to be trusted with firearms according to the previous argument. I wasn't trying to suggest that these are on par with felonies, just that simple disregard for the law isn't a sufficient measure, but disregard of others is.

You chose to list violent felonies, people that should be locked up for a very long time or lined up in front of a firing squad. Very few of these should ever be allowed out into the public again. You neglected to mention grand theft, arson, forgery, fraud, or drugs. I believe there are even some crimes where possession of a firearm, even if not used to commit any crime, escalates a misdemeanor into a felony. These are the people that need to serve their time then be allowed to start over with a law-abiding life if that is what they choose to do.

If the people of this state choose to neglect our prison system to the point that a felon convicted of murder is released then I have every confidence that he will find a weapon and commit murder again if he so desires, irregardless of what the laws say he can't do. Remember, gun control only affects law-abiding people, never those with criminal intent. When is the last time a gun control law was cited as the reason why a felony was prevented? When was the last time a citizen with a firearm stopped a felony? Ok then, we've just established that gun control doesn't work and there is no reason to say "I support the Second Amendment, but..."

Even those violent felonies are not always what they seem at face value. Rape is sometimes consensual, just not in the eyes of the law due to the age of one of the two. Armed robbery can be a desperate man trying to find a way to feed his wife & 5 yr old daughter. Are they to be condemned to living a life as a helpless victim because of the hardness of your heart?

When you take all compassion and humanity out of your treatment of felons how can you expect a felon to reform into having compassion and humanity for you and yours?

 

[Martini_Up]

Either you are free to walk the streets and own firearms or you are too dangerous to walk the streets.

This middle ground only builds fear within the people and justification in politicians choices to limit firearms ownership as 'we don't want these assault rifles on the streets in criminals hands" One day they're banned altogether because they're too dangerous to be on our streets filled with criminals and felons

 

[Nwcid]

Speeding on the highway is a not a felony and neither is rolling a stop sign! Come on, we're talking a FELONY! Speeding, Jaywalking, shoplifting are NOT felonies! Armed robbery, Murder, Rape, Child molestation etc. You know, the people who when they get out of jail you don't want living next door to your wife & 5 yr old daughter. The people that make every law abiding citizen in the neighborhood go out and buy a gun and learn how to use it.
You need to move away from that city or get involved in politics and get those morons out of office!

WHY are they out if they are still dangerous? That is what needs fixed, not making gun laws that they will not follow..................

 

[Classic]

The question at hand was disregard for the law. My examples were showing how pretty much everyone has shown disregard for the law at some point and are therefore not to be trusted with firearms according to the previous argument. I wasn't trying to suggest that these are on par with felonies, just that simple disregard for the law isn't a sufficient measure, but disregard of others is.

You chose to list violent felonies, people that should be locked up for a very long time or lined up in front of a firing squad. Very few of these should ever be allowed out into the public again. You neglected to mention grand theft, arson, forgery, fraud, or drugs. I believe there are even some crimes where possession of a firearm, even if not used to commit any crime, escalates a misdemeanor into a felony. These are the people that need to serve their time then be allowed to start over with a law-abiding life if that is what they choose to do.

If the people of this state choose to neglect our prison system to the point that a felon convicted of murder is released then I have every confidence that he will find a weapon and commit murder again if he so desires, irregardless of what the laws say he can't do. Remember, gun control only affects law-abiding people, never those with criminal intent. When is the last time a gun control law was cited as the reason why a felony was prevented? When was the last time a citizen with a firearm stopped a felony? Ok then, we've just established that gun control doesn't work and there is no reason to say "I support the Second Amendment, but..."

Even those violent felonies are not always what they seem at face value. Rape is sometimes consensual, just not in the eyes of the law due to the age of one of the two. Armed robbery can be a desperate man trying to find a way to feed his wife & 5 yr old daughter. Are they to be condemned to living a life as a helpless victim because of the hardness of your heart?

When you take all compassion and humanity out of your treatment of felons how can you expect a felon to reform into having compassion and humanity for you and yours?

They had their chance to own a gun and CHOSE to screw the pooch! I don't want them living next to me LET ALONE with a GUN!
ARE YOU SERIOUS???
Tell me "honestly " that you would want a 1/2 way house next to you with supposedly "Reformed" FELONS living next to you and your family LET ALONE WITH A GUN!!!
Are you kidding me??
The problem is I have a neighbor who chose to rent his house out to DOJ and my entire neighborhood had been fighting to keep these sexual perverts away from out kids! These guys (13 OF THEM at one point) TERRORIZED a 16 SQ block neighborhood for a year before we managed to get the "DOJ preferred" status taken away from them.
I have lived with this and you want to give them the right to carry a gun back??? Are you an idiot?? I had neighbors who walked away from their homes after living there for 10 years because these guy haunted them but you want to let them have guns... Fricken really?
Dude, this is not Jupiter.... People have to live with their neighbors and if they happen to be recently released from jail then NO WAY should the be allowed to have a gun! Grow a brain!!!

WHY are they out if they are still dangerous? That is what needs fixed, not making gun laws that they will not follow..................

Answer: because according to our courts they have been in jail long enough (instead if fried by the testicles). Then you get a Governor like I'm stuck with who won't execute people like Gary Ridgeway... H e l l this guy didn't need a gun yet you wanna let these guys carry just nbecause they served their time?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I HOPE YOU ARE STUCK LIVING NEXT TO THEM - you WILL change your tune!!!

 

[Swedish K]

Speeding on the highway is a not a felony and neither is rolling a stop sign! Come on, we're talking a FELONY! Speeding, Jaywalking, shoplifting are NOT felonies! Armed robbery, Murder, Rape, Child molestation etc. You know, the people who when they get out of jail you don't want living next door to your wife & 5 yr old daughter. The people that make every law abiding citizen in the neighborhood go out and buy a gun and learn how to use it.
You need to move away from that city or get involved in politics and get those morons out of office!

Classic - this is not a personal attack, just a bit of information. In many states there is felony speeding, often considered to be any time someone exceeds double the speed limit, or, if I recall correctly, in CA if you exceed 110 MPH - I'm sure I broke that one dozens of times on a bike.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with having a half way house in your neighborhood and understand your frustration with the situation. I know I wouldn't want one down the block from me either. You would be surprised at how many parolees look at half way houses and parole as a vacation from "home". I had dozens of parolees run away from the half way house in the last week before release to regular parole.

People understand that the prisons are overcrowded, what most don't understand is that parole officer caseloads are overloaded as well. Most people don't have a clue just how many parolees are out there - usually about 20-30% of the prison population. In CA there are currently about 190,000 inmates in state prisons, on top of that there are approximately 50,000 parolees. This does not include the roughly 30,000 parolees at large and escapees that have warrants for their arrest. - oh, this number is a bit lower than a year or two ago before the federal courts decided that the prison overcrowding lead to poor living conditions for inmates and made them cut several thousand loose which did nothing to reduce the overcrowding. The inmates that were released were generally level 1 minimum security inmates and minimum security prisons were not overcrowded. The upper custody levels are where the crowding is (level 3 and 4 + death row). The bottom line is now the courts forced the release, the release lead to early release from parole for existing parolees, and the same problem exists since lower custody prisons are not suitable for upper custody inmates to be securely housed.

Oh - contrary to popular belief, TV shows where the cops are geniuses who have CSI units that are filled with geniuses and figure out that the pocket lint at the scene came from the bad guy is far from the norm. In most cases inmates go to prison because they are "Felony Stupid" as we called it. They either commit the crimes and involve the dumbest guys they know who go and tell people what they did, or they commit crimes, go and get drunk / high and shoot their own mouth off to people about how cool they are. They don't think that their buddy "Big D", "Gordo" or "wheels" would ever tell on them which is exactly what happens as soon as they get popped for a possession charge so they don't have to do a month in county. *** Note, I'm not saying cops are stupid, just that they don't have to be geniuses to bust most of the felons. A prime example of this was a guy who worked for Caltrans that worked on some federally funded waste water treatment plants to clean the storm runoff from freeways. He had worked on 3 of these plants already and found out that there was additional federal funding available. He took a set of the existing plans, made some minor changes and submitted the paperwork for a non existent plant at a location roughly in the middle of the other 3 locations and, as the contact with the feds for the "project" approved the payment of the dummy construction company he created. These water treatment plants electronically reported flow volume, etc. to the feds so to cover his tracks he wrote a program that would take the numbers from the other plants and would average them + or - a random percentage from .5 to 12%.
The guy got away with millions, quit his job and moved to AZ, married a trophy wife and was doing well. The trophy wife had an affair so he cried in his beer to his buddy about how he had done all of this to make her happy, problem being the buddy was the one she was sleeping with. Next stop, federal prison. It is highly suspected that over a million of his funds were siphoned off from his accounts prior to them turning him in.

OK - I think I've gotten a bit far off the tracks of the thread so back to the original concept -

Still think that they need to fix the system before I can agree to letting all non violent felons have gun rights restored or even saying all violent felons shouldn't have a chance to get their rights back. Think that those who shouldn't have their rights restored shouldn't be on the streets.

 

[Outdoorxj]

They had their chance to own a gun and CHOSE to screw the pooch! I don't want them living next to me LET ALONE with a GUN!
ARE YOU SERIOUS???
Tell me "honestly " that you would want a 1/2 way house next to you with supposedly "Reformed" FELONS living next to you and your family LET ALONE WITH A GUN!!!
Are you kidding me??
The problem is I have a neighbor who chose to rent his house out to DOJ and my entire neighborhood had been fighting to keep these sexual perverts away from out kids! These guys (13 OF THEM at one point) TERRORIZED a 16 SQ block neighborhood for a year before we managed to get the "DOJ preferred" status taken away from them.
I have lived with this and you want to give them the right to carry a gun back??? Are you an idiot?? I had neighbors who walked away from their homes after living there for 10 years because these guy haunted them but you want to let them have guns... Fricken really?
Dude, this is not Jupiter.... People have to live with their neighbors and if they happen to be recently released from jail then NO WAY should the be allowed to have a gun! Grow a brain!!!



Answer: because according to our courts they have been in jail long enough (instead if fried by the testicles). Then you get a Governor like I'm stuck with who won't execute people like Gary Ridgeway... H e l l this guy didn't need a gun yet you wanna let these guys carry just nbecause they served their time?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I HOPE YOU ARE STUCK LIVING NEXT TO THEM - you WILL change your tune!!!

Whoa!

 

[Outdoorxj]

They had their chance to own a gun and CHOSE to screw the pooch! I don't want them living next to me LET ALONE with a GUN!
ARE YOU SERIOUS???
Tell me "honestly " that you would want a 1/2 way house next to you with supposedly "Reformed" FELONS living next to you and your family LET ALONE WITH A GUN!!!
Are you kidding me??
The problem is I have a neighbor who chose to rent his house out to DOJ and my entire neighborhood had been fighting to keep these sexual perverts away from out kids! These guys (13 OF THEM at one point) TERRORIZED a 16 SQ block neighborhood for a year before we managed to get the "DOJ preferred" status taken away from them.
I have lived with this and you want to give them the right to carry a gun back??? Are you an idiot?? I had neighbors who walked away from their homes after living there for 10 years because these guy haunted them but you want to let them have guns... Fricken really?
Dude, this is not Jupiter.... People have to live with their neighbors and if they happen to be recently released from jail then NO WAY should the be allowed to have a gun! Grow a brain!!!



Answer: because according to our courts they have been in jail long enough (instead if fried by the testicles). Then you get a Governor like I'm stuck with who won't execute people like Gary Ridgeway... H e l l this guy didn't need a gun yet you wanna let these guys carry just nbecause they served their time?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I HOPE YOU ARE STUCK LIVING NEXT TO THEM - you WILL change your tune!!!

You too could become a potential felon, we all could. By accident or by being blame for a crime we did not commit. Than what, NOT ALL FELONS ARE CREATED EQUAL. FOR GOD SAKES WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEING. please step off your high horse. You are quick to judge a felon by "felon" not by who they really are. A murder felon is not the same as a felon who

 

[U201492]

They had their chance to own a gun and CHOSE to screw the pooch! I don't want them living next to me LET ALONE with a GUN! ARE YOU SERIOUS??? **chuckles quietly** You mean like the Founding Fathers were convicted felons for treason against Britian during the War of the Colonies? We call it The American Revolution, seems I read once they called it the American Insurrection- a felon is a mater of perspective
Tell me "honestly " that you would want a 1/2 way house next to you with supposedly "Reformed" FELONS living next to you and your family LET ALONE WITH A GUN!!! Are you kidding me??
Nope- read any good history book should show you this
The problem is I have a neighbor who chose to rent his house out to DOJ and my entire neighborhood had been fighting to keep these sexual perverts away from out kids! These guys (13 OF THEM at one point) TERRORIZED a 16 SQ block neighborhood for a year before we managed to get the "DOJ preferred" status taken away from them.
Think a moment on this- its rented to the Department of Justice. This means those who are there are under adult supervision and tracked at all time. Ever heard what George Carlin said about living next to a prison and how safe it is? If someone escapes the LAST place they want to be is near the prison- thereby making it very very safe!!
I have lived with this and you want to give them the right to carry a gun back??? Are you an idiot??
Why not? If they have done their time/pentenance, and the required time has passed- in Washington State its 7 years- a convicted Felony can apply to have their records sealed so they can get jobs and become a productive member of society. To keep kicking a man or woman when they're already down- how can they ever rejoin society if you won't let them? Ever read the story "The Scarlett Letter"? It's an American short story about a Preacher during Pilgrim times who seduced one of his Parishners. She was forced to wear a huge "A" for adulteress on her clothes. I suggest you read what Wikipedia has to say on what happened to the Preacher concerning hypocrisy.
I had neighbors who walked away from their homes after living there for 10 years because these guy haunted them but you want to let them have guns... Fricken really? Ah, you mean they were convicted felons because they couldn't make payments on their house so they were evicted right?
Dude, this is not Jupiter.... People have to live with their neighbors and if they happen to be recently released from jail then NO WAY should the be allowed to have a gun! Grow a brain!!! Once someone is released from prison, there is two ways it can be dealt with: 1)Halfway house and/or probation or 2)Do ALL the time and be released from prison or jail as a 100% free man. If you take option 2, you DO NOT have to report to ANYONE and most of your freedoms are restored because the convict has done ALL of their punishment

Once upon a time there was a woman in a small city called "Sychar" who was going to be stoned to death by the people. A certain famous religious teacher showed up, took a stick and started writing in the dirt- scribbling, really. Speculation has been around for a very long time what this religious teacher wrote in the dirt- but the best description I've read is he started writing the different wrongs the townspeople had done. Once the people started seeing their own errors, they began to drop their stones until nobody was left to accuse this woman. This famous teacher then asked "Where are your accusers?" The woman, bleeding and afraid said "They've gone". The teacher, showing great wisdom then said "I don't accuse you either. Go, and don't do it again"

if you want a better world, then you have to lead by example. Not everyone is mentally advanced enough to understand such things as "mercy" or "grace".

And you have NO idea how many convicted felons there could be on this board right now reading this who have legally had their rights restored.

Lets just say I've had a bit of a checkered past, and my experience in both civil and criminal sides of the house was one of the reasons why I was accepted at Puget Sound Law School, Concord School of Law, and the University of Wyoming Law School. I wanted to go to the UW because thats where Gerry Spence, who is one of the top criminal defense attorneys graduated from- also, its a very small school, having a class of less than 300 usually.

The reason why I went to Paralegal College rather than go to law school is the price- Paralegal is roughly 5,000 for a 2 year home study degree. UW would have been an easy 90,000. University of Puget Sound? Easy 200,000 in tuition. A Paralegal can work for an attorney for 4 years/8500 hours and with a 4 year degree (any 4 year degree- isn't that a comforting thought?) can be proctored to take the Bar.

Answer: because according to our courts they have been in jail long enough (instead if fried by the testicles). Then you get a Governor like I'm stuck with who won't execute people like Gary Ridgeway... H e l l this guy didn't need a gun yet you wanna let these guys carry just nbecause they served their time?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I HOPE YOU ARE STUCK LIVING NEXT TO THEM - you WILL change your tune!!!

I have intentionally lived in the ghetto now for the past 5 years. I have seen homeless, drunks, gunfights, and food banks feed anchor babies for illegal's. I have seen fights, and heard gunshots followed shortly by the ambulance, who was then followed by the coroner. I suggest you learn to be more forgiving- its good for you spiritually

 

[cooper]

I realize some people smirk when others quote their Constitutional rights. I hear you, local State Constitution/laws are the authority we deal w/day to day. In the State of Oregon ( I THINK ) non-violent felons ( and not multiple Felon re-offender ) have the RIGHT to APPEAL for expungement of felony from record to restore HUMAN RIGHT. This after a term of 3 yrs. after felony conviction as long as no previous felony charge or past felony expungement in past 10 yrs. That said someone with 2 felonies can APPLY for expungement/restoration of rights after waiting a period of 10 yrs. given, they have stayed out of trouble......SOUNDS FAIR TO ME. 10 yrs is bit of time but cause and effect ! STEPPING OFF THE SOAP-BOX I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT. WHEN DOES SOMEONE PAY THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY ? THE COURTS SAY TIME SERVED,FINES PAYED,PROBATION OVER. I GUESS THATS KIND OF LIKE QUOTING THE BILL OF RIGHTS THOUGH.........

 

[1990Turbo]

I myself have never commited a felony,but I work for a company that is felon friendly. As I have gotten to know some of these guys and consider them friends there is quite a few of them I would say are grown up enough and smart enough to own a gun. Lots of these guys have worked their tails off to get clean and straight and make a career out of the job they have. Of couse this is a very small sample of felons. I agree with others than gun qwnership by felons should be handled case by case.

 

[DMax]

How about we then throw in Teaching jobs for Pedophiles. I am just sure all you pro felon guys with kids will not have a problem with that either. Carry on.

 

[Nwcid]

They had their chance to own a gun and CHOSE to screw the pooch! I don't want them living next to me LET ALONE with a GUN!
ARE YOU SERIOUS???
Tell me "honestly " that you would want a 1/2 way house next to you with supposedly "Reformed" FELONS living next to you and your family LET ALONE WITH A GUN!!!
Are you kidding me??
The problem is I have a neighbor who chose to rent his house out to DOJ and my entire neighborhood had been fighting to keep these sexual perverts away from out kids! These guys (13 OF THEM at one point) TERRORIZED a 16 SQ block neighborhood for a year before we managed to get the "DOJ preferred" status taken away from them.
I have lived with this and you want to give them the right to carry a gun back??? Are you an idiot?? I had neighbors who walked away from their homes after living there for 10 years because these guy haunted them but you want to let them have guns... Fricken really?
Dude, this is not Jupiter.... People have to live with their neighbors and if they happen to be recently released from jail then NO WAY should the be allowed to have a gun! Grow a brain!!!



Answer: because according to our courts they have been in jail long enough (instead if fried by the testicles). Then you get a Governor like I'm stuck with who won't execute people like Gary Ridgeway... H e l l this guy didn't need a gun yet you wanna let these guys carry just nbecause they served their time?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I HOPE YOU ARE STUCK LIVING NEXT TO THEM - you WILL change your tune!!!

The problem with your point is that they CAN own a gun now and they DO! When was the last time a law stopped a FELON that wanted a gun from owning a one? This is the same theory that gun grabbers use to justify taking guns from all people. Yet some how it ONLY effect the law abiding which is are not the problem, Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.

You missed the key point of my statement. We need to work on fixing the broken laws, not focusing on ones that dont work. IF I am stuck living next to them then I KNOW no law is going to stop one who wants to cause me harm from getting a gun................. What needs to change it our treatment of VIOLENT criminals. That is where the problem is. Making physical barriers (jail) that will actually stop violent people from interacting with the public, not laws that do NOTHING. Again the phrase "repeat offender" should be removed from our vocabulary as there should be no such thing.

 

[Nwcid]

How about we then throw in Teaching jobs for Pedophiles. I am just sure all you pro felon guys with kids will not have a problem with that either. Carry on.

It has nothing to do with being pro felon or anti felon. It has to do with looking at the facts. Please show me what law ACTUALLY stops anyone who wants a gun from getting one?

 

[Redcap]

How about we then throw in Teaching jobs for Pedophiles. I am just sure all you pro felon guys with kids will not have a problem with that either. Carry on.

 

[DMax]

It has nothing to do with being pro felon or anti felon. It has to do with looking at the facts. Please show me what law ACTUALLY stops anyone who wants a gun from getting one?

There isn't one other wise all the gun control laws we have would already be living in utopia. Since when do facts matter to the left anyway. Carry On

 

[U201492]

How about we then throw in Teaching jobs for Pedophiles. I am just sure all you pro felon guys with kids will not have a problem with that either. Carry on.

*Smiles gently at DMax, not wanting to start a flame war but wants to continue the discussion- after all, doesn't "Racing improve the breed?"*

Well thats a good point Dmax- lets explore it a bit. If you knew the teacher was a pedophile then it would be logical this person would be monitored like a hawk watching a mouse along the I5 corridor right? You KNOW what that person would do under the right circumstances and you know how to prevent those circumstances from happening correct?

Here's a little nosh of data for you: 3-4% of Priests and Preachers have been found and punished to be pedophiles. In the public school systems nationwide that number jumps between 10 to 39% in some cases- and you don't hear the outrage against teachers- all the jokes you've heard is against religious organizations- a bit of a double standard

Another double standard is all these female teachers seducing male students. Where were these teachers when I was a boy? If a boy is seduced most men will say "Lucky Dog!" but if it happens to a girl student its "Oh 5**T!!"

Part of this is cultural; in France its considered normal for an older woman to teach a young boy how to be a man. Also consider that for the 4.5 million years that humans have been on this planet that most of the time, 99% of history was written by teenagers. Alexander the Great had conquered the known world- and died at the age of 24. Some guy named Joe had a wife named Mary with really long blood lines to some guy named King David and they had a kid they were told to call "the Messiah". She would have been by cultural norms of the time around 12 or 13 years old, he would have been around 16ish to 18ish- this tradition is still called the "Bat mitzvah" even today after 2,000 years have passed.

I'd love to keep discussing this but lets take it to PM

 

[Martini_Up]

How about we then throw in Teaching jobs for Pedophiles. I am just sure all you pro felon guys with kids will not have a problem with that either. Carry on.

Teaching isn't a right.

And predator pedophiles need dirt naps and the line to tuck them in goes around the block.

And nobody is pro-felon, they're pro-rights. As is now, an anti-2A individual can point to the streets and say, "look at all those felons, we can't let them have guns! Let's close the loophole!!! NO PRIVATE SALE OF GUNS WITHOUT BACKGROUND CHECKS!!!!!"

And then what happens with universal background checks? Same thing with every law, it becomes more and more restrictive - One day you are denied a firearm purchase because you're a felon. Then it's ex-con. Then it's having 3 speeding tickets. Then it's 1. Then it isn't fair because so many are denied gun purchases so it becomes 'WHY DO YOU NEED A GUN?" Think that's paranoid thinking? Look at the states with the most restrictions and follow the history of how they became that way.

 

[U201492]

Teaching isn't a right.

And predator pedophiles need dirt naps and the line to tuck them in goes around the block.

And nobody is pro-felon, they're pro-rights. As is now, an anti-2A individual can point to the streets and say, "look at all those felons, we can't let them have guns! Let's close the loophole!!! NO PRIVATE SALE OF GUNS WITHOUT BACKGROUND CHECKS!!!!!"

And then what happens with universal background checks? Same thing with every law, it becomes more and more restrictive - One day you are denied a firearm purchase because you're a felon. Then it's ex-con. Then it's having 3 speeding tickets. Then it's 1. Then it isn't fair because so many are denied gun purchases so it becomes 'WHY DO YOU NEED A GUN?" Think that's paranoid thinking? Look at the states with the most restrictions and follow the history of how they became that way.

This is not "paranoid thinking". The legal term is called the "slippery slope". The logic is "If A gives way to B, and B gives way to C, then why not D, E, F and G also?" Its this logical sequence that define marriage as a "Man and a woman"- if we expand it to male/male or female/female then where do we stop the logic train? Do we stop it of a guy and a sheep? Do we simply say Richard Geer and Gerbils? How does NAMBLA fit into it? What about their rights? *Shrugs*

To illustrate how logic can fail, a woman married a building: Seattle woman ?marries? building to protest its demolition Woman marries Ferris Wheel: Linda Ducharme Gets Married To Ferris Wheel Named 'Bruce'

My opinion- that and $5 is worth the price of a cup of coffee- is there's some things that simply shouldn't be regulated by the government but by the provider and the person involved. Before "Roe vs. Wade" illegal abortions were done quietly by doctors by simply listing them as a separate surgical procedure.

Dr. Solon Boyinton, Bellingham, WA was my Great Father in Law, a surgeon. He was arrested by the Bellingham Chief of Police for doing abortions in the 1950's. Dr. Boyinton told his attorney to tell the Chief of Police "If you proceed with this, every woman I've done an abortion on their medical files will be made public- including the two abortions you forced your wife to have, along with the Mayors, and a few men on the city counsel". For some strange reason, the charges were,,,,misplaced and never refiled.

This is why we need to fight tooth and nail, hoof and foot to any changes in firearm laws. I've had liberal acquaintences say "But whats wrong with a few more laws?" And then I've said "Gun owners have given up gun laws in 1890, 1934, 1938, 1958, the Gun Control Act of 1968, modified 1982, the Clinton Gun ban in 1994- which is still in effect in California, New York, Washington DC and Chicago- and since you couldn't get laws passed, the Presi-duh-ent of the United States has signed 23 executive orders to get around Congress.

Every time this happens, we lose rights- and we get nothing in return. No- we're tired of giving up rights. The line in the sand is HERE. The battle ground is HERE. The time is NOW.

I'm sorry for my rant- I apologize. But I really don't like the way how liberals think "We take, you get nothing"

 

[Riot]

Wow, this topic is a lot more heated than I thought it would be.

Can you guys please keep the name calling down? Some of you bring up great points, like how basically everyone (at some point) has committed a crime that would constitute a felony. Some of you bring up spot on points about how if felons are allowed to use firearms after they commited crimes with firearms, then aren't we just asking for trouble?

I knew when I started this poll that it wasn't going to be an easy one to answer. Many of you probably have family members and friends that are convicted criminals. I know a prepper that was convicted for possession of Cocaine- it was in the car and everyone got charged (or so he says). This was when he was 19....he's almost 50 now with no other convictions what-so-ever. Why can't he have his gun rights back?

Then on the reverse, you've got guys that are harden criminals. Prison doesn't rehabilitate people that live a life of crime...on the contrary, it helps them network with other criminals to continue their "profession" and even protects them with outside, criminal resources. Allowing them to purchase and own firearms is asking for trouble. These are sociopaths that have no regard for you or your family. Many would rather "go out in a blaze of glory" than go back to prison and many just don't care about going back since being a criminal is all they know.

Like I said when I started the post, I didn't mean this thread to turn into a "the Justice System is broken" thread, just what your thoughts were on former felons having firearms.

I, personally, am leaning to the "It Depends on the Crime" portion. The Washington State Department of Corrections already classifies people under their supervision into two main categories.

Violent
Nonviolent

Then they assess their likelyhood of reoffending into three categories.

Low
Moderate
High

For example...someone who killed someone in a crime of passion, first offense, and no gang affiliation would be classified as LOW-VIOLENT...but someone who has a history of violence, multiple offenses (usually a span of a few years and escellation of violence or use of weapons) and any gang affiliations are classified as HIGH-VIOLENT. Obviously carrer criminals are placed in a HIGH probility of reoffending and new criminals are classified as a LOW probility...non-violent offenses (usually crimes that never involve death or the use of any physical force) are self explanitory.

It's an easy task, at least at the state level, to say "if you are a LOW-NONVIOLENT offender, you can have your gun rights restored after appeal." Just nobody wants to deal with that cluster.


Anyhoot, keep up the discussion, just please keep it civil.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

I, personally, am leaning to the "It Depends on the Crime" portion.

So how do you propose that be accomplished? Background checks? Nope we already know that is impossible. Total gun control? Nope, still would not work. Until people start being realistic and realize that no matter how many laws are enacted there are none that will keep guns out of the hands of violent felons that walk the streets if they want them then we will continue to have our rights stripped away. Now that we have that out of the way we can actually try to address the real problem which is that we are letting dangerous and known felons walk the street. While you may not have intended for the discussion to be about a broken system it was inevitable because the only reason to ask it is "because" of a broken system.