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I think it's ironic that the same people who think that the Arizona police should be able to ask Hispanics for their ID are usually the ones opposed to the same treatment.
+1
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I think it's ironic that the same people who think that the Arizona police should be able to ask Hispanics for their ID are usually the ones opposed to the same treatment.
Well, OP does say the citizen "declined politely." Of course, this is only hearing one side of the story but with the information we have it doesn't *sound* like he was being a jerk.
I'm not saying he wasn't within his rights, all I'm saying is that most police types I have come across don't give two sh*ts about your rights, all they care about is respect.
Totally agree.
No, it is not about respect. It is about power.
Either way, YOU can decide if you want to start a piss fest with a cop or not. There's an easy way, and a hard way.
The United States Supreme Court has established that it is a violation of the Fourth Amendment for the police to seize a person absent reasonable articulable suspicion of crime afoot. Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968).
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The purpose of law enforcement is to help ensure open carriers enjoy these freedoms, not to stifle them.
I salute you, sir.
Do you also have relevant Oregon case law at your fingertips?
I equate open carry with putting "Protected by Smith and Wesson" stickers on your truck or house. What's the point, if there isn't a certain amount of bravado involved?
After listening to the audio of that incident, that was posted here, I think that the police officers involved were MORE than courteous to the citizen who was open carrying. The officers politely explained why they were asking him for ID and were extremely patient. I'm curious as to where this audio came from. Did the citizen record this incident? If so, then it would appear that he was LOOKING for a confrontation. All I can say to those of you who think he was hassled, try walking in the LEO's shoes for awhile!:huh:
No, it is not about respect. It is about power.
The citizen recorded the audio. The citizen also declined the one officer's request for ID. There is no 'stop and identify' statute in Wasington. Furthermore, the citizen was on private property and the property owner had not requested any police assistance.
After the citizen declined the plain clothes officers request, the officer called for 3 more officers to enter the private business and intimidate the citizen.
All clearly against the 4th amendment rights of citizens.
Good grief! The police have the right and responsibility to answer calls from any citizen who is alarmed! A retail store may be private property in some respects, but the police do not not need the "permission" of the owner to respond to a call. I for one am getting tired of listening to all this complaining that open carriers are being harassed by LEO's, especially after listening to several VERY polite officers trying to explain why they were asking for ID.
All I have to add is my personal police procedure.
1)SIT DOWN. I learned this from a friend who weighs around 300lbs and stands about 6'6". As soon as a police begins to talk to you, not just casually but questioning you, SIT DOWN and they relax a lot. I have personally seen this get guns back into their holsters in a tense situation.
2)BE POLITE. Yes, sir. No, sir.
3)RESPECT. Never say, suggest, act like, or even infer in any possible way that you know the law better than they do. Doesn't matter. If they think you think you're smarter than they are (even if you obviously are), any police will take that personally.
4)LAWYER UP. That is, if you are doing something illegal, or feel like being a martyr.
5)JUST BE WHO HE WANTS TO PROTECT