Seeking knowledge

[Capn Jack]

I'm not big on having one gun play a bunch of roles. It would be my luck and I would need it to do A, but have it configured to do B. I prefer my guns to be like a set of golf clubs where each club in the bag has a purpose. If I need a 22, I want a dedicated 22. AR15s are so customizable that you could have a whole "golf bag" full of ARs for different purposes.

If I were brand new to shooting, I'd start out just like my Dad had me start out, with a couple tweeks. I started with a single shot 22 and then got a 10/22. I would probably start with a Ruger American Rimfire bolt action in 22LR and then get a 10/22 to play dress-up. Both take the same magazine and serve their own purpose. If I could only have one, then a 10/22 and force myself to shoot deliberately for a while to really learn.

I currently have a Ruger 77/22 bolt action and a 10/22 that give me magazine commonality, but that would be a far more expensive route.

Don't think that 22s aren't fun or as useful. I currently have five. A Lakefield/Savage single shot, a CZ455 with a scope, a Ruger 77/22 with open sights, a 10/22, and a Ruger MkII pistol.

When I first started with AR's, I had 4 uppers and one lower. I used to tease my wife about having her carry a golf bag with the uppers and hand me a caliber when I called for it. I eventually replaced every rifle caliber I owned with a corresponding AR upper.
(Muscle memory)

 

[3MTA3]

My .02 worth what you paid for it, For a first rifle I'd recommend a bolt action .22. I know not the latest and greatest semi auto and not as "fun" as mag dumping a 10/22 but it will teach you the value of one shot one kill. When I go shooting the .22's with my son he's got a dolled up 10/22 and I've got a Savage bolt action with a nikon scope on it. We will shoot at spent shotgun shells at about 50 yards. He shoots fast with 50 round magazines and misses quite a lot, I shoot one at a time and don't miss. He likes to stand up the shells to present the biggest target while I like to lay them down so I can aim at the primer. Aim small, miss small works for me while spray and pray works for my son. I like to mag dump as well as the next person with someone else buying the ammo but one well placed shot has a effecentcy that appeals to my Scottish frugality. So bottom line, spend about $300.00 +/- on a good .22 bolt action rifle, about $200.00 +/- on a good scope made for .22 caliber, $100.00 on " gun stuff" and the rest on ammo and get good hitting what you shoot at, one shot at a time. I know this sounds pretty vanilla but it's a good starting point and the the correct number of guns is indeed, just one more.

My thoughts exactly and further only one round in the magazine at a time. Slow things down. Work on the fundamentals.

If I were training a child or teen how to shoot there would be prizes based on things like hitting five targets with five shots appropriate to the age and difficulty. I'd make this a specific part of each session and offered just once per session. Could be ice cream and pizza, could be the keys to the family car for Friday night.

 

[DB is Here]

I'd also vote for the 10/22, it's the one rifle that goes to the range with me every time.
Second, AR variant.
Third Bolt action.

Biggest thing, enjoy the journey as it's a lot of fun to research with the knowledge you'll be bringing home a long gun.

 

[Kk127001]

A

An AR rifle consists of two main pieces. The lower which is the part that is registered, consists of the trigger control group and stock which goes against your shoulder
View attachment 623095
The upper consists of the bolt carrier group barrel and handguard
View attachment 623096
By pushing two pins on the lower the pieces can be separated. The uppers can be bought and sold freely with no background checks or registration and many different types can be pinned on to one mil spec lower to make shoot different cartridges including 22lr. A good Ar15 in 5.56 can be had for under $500 right now. Checking on the Cmmg uppers they have gone up lately I think I paid about $400 but they are now $475 or so. Plus you will need some 22lr mags for it. So for around a grand you could set yourself up with the package. Not the cheapest option but your training with the 22 upper would have same ergos as the .556 version

What about something like this:
Or something like this:

I'm sure they are pretty much the same thing just different accessories. Would I be able to change the upper on this so I can shoot different calibers? Based off what it says, it comes as a 22 but you mentioned a 5.56 that can be customized to a 22. Is it not backwards compatible? Plus I think this looks like a really nice option since I wouldn't feel the need to go out and buy a load of accessories right now except a case, my own ear protection and cleaning supplies as well as bullets of course. I really only want to play around with 22 calibers for now and this doesn't put a huge dent in my pocket so yippy for that! Let me know what you think! Thanks a ton!!!

 

[Kk127001]

I'd also vote for the 10/22, it's the one rifle that goes to the range with me every time.
Second, AR variant.
Third Bolt action.

Biggest thing, enjoy the journey as it's a lot of fun to research with the knowledge you'll be bringing home a long gun.

Thank you! I like that you put the choices in order. It helps a lot!

 

[osprey]

What about something like this: View attachment 623131

Or something like this:
View attachment 623132
I'm sure they are pretty much the same thing just different accessories. Would I be able to change the upper on this so I can shoot different calibers? Based off what it says, it comes as a 22 but you mentioned a 5.56 that can be customized to a 22. Is it not backwards compatible? Plus I think this looks like a really nice option since I wouldn't feel the need to go out and buy a load of accessories right now except a case, my own ear protection and cleaning supplies as well as bullets of course. I really only want to play around with 22 calibers for now and this doesn't put a huge dent in my pocket so yippy for that! Let me know what you think! Thanks a ton!!!

Unfortunately no you can't put a 5.56 or any other upper on that 15-22 lower. They are made specifically for that 22 platform and have differences from a mil spec ar15 lower that makes them incompatible. No free lunch here unfortunately.

 

[osprey]

Here is another option. Buy these two and for under $500 you have a lower you can use with other uppers in the future. Of coarse you would need to buy a couple black dog 22 mags for it as well and I think they are around $25 each.

PSA 16" .22 LR 1:16 Nitride 15" Lightweight M-Lok Upper With BCG & CH

Palmetto State Armory is proud to announce the Dedicated .22 LR Upper! Barrel: 4150V Chrome moly vanadium steel 16" barrel length chambered in .22 LR, with a 1:16 twist. This

palmettostatearmory.com

PSA AR-15 Complete Classic Lower - No Magazine - 7244

This Complete Palmetto State Armory lower is fully assembled and ready for your complete Upper!Machined from Aluminum Forgings 7075-T6Hardcoat Anodizing: MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2Milspec diameter

palmettostatearmory.com

 

[Kk127001]

Unfortunately no you can't put a 5.56 or any other upper on that 15-22 lower. They are made specifically for that 22 platform and have differences from a mil spec ar15 lower that makes them incompatible. No free lunch here unfortunately.

So if I get something like this:

To convert it to shoot 22 calibers, I'd need something like this?: 22lr | Product categories | CMMG Inc.

The page linked has several. I'm not sure if I looked up the correct thing but I googled: "22lr cmmg upper for AR15"

 

[Kk127001]

Here is another option. Buy these two and for under $500 you have a lower you can use with other uppers in the future. Of coarse you would need to buy a couple black dog 22 mags for it as well and I think they are around $25 each.

PSA 16" .22 LR 1:16 Nitride 15" Lightweight M-Lok Upper With BCG & CH

Palmetto State Armory is proud to announce the Dedicated .22 LR Upper! Barrel: 4150V Chrome moly vanadium steel 16" barrel length chambered in .22 LR, with a 1:16 twist. This

palmettostatearmory.com

PSA AR-15 Complete Classic Lower - No Magazine - 7244

This Complete Palmetto State Armory lower is fully assembled and ready for your complete Upper!Machined from Aluminum Forgings 7075-T6Hardcoat Anodizing: MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2Milspec diameter

palmettostatearmory.com

That looks great! Other than accessories, that's all I'd need for the gun including mags? Could you link a good mag? And are these good quality parts?

 

[osprey]

I only have experience with the cmmg dedicated 22lr uppers and with a few tweaks they are very solid. I can't speak to the palmetto one I linked above but the price is attractive. I would read all the reviews and try to find someone who has run one to help decide.

Here is a link to some good mags at a good price as well

Blackdog AR-15 .22 Sonic Weld X-Form Magazines w/ Stainless Steel Feed Lips

Blackdog AR-15 .22 Sonic Weld X-Form Magazines w/ Stainless Steel Feed Lips

www.joeboboutfitters.com

 

[tac]

I'm going to be the parade-p*sser here, folks, but since I'm actively involved instructing noobs to shooting, and trust me, the rules are the same no matter where you live - bullets do not recognise nationalities - I'm going to throw this thought in the ring.

Learn SLOW and deliberate - LEARN to shoot with a rifle that makes you have to concentrate on the essentials in order to get a result. Breathing, sight picture, breathing, shot release, follow-through, breathing.

That, Friends,needs a bolt-action rifle with open sights, either made as a single shot, or only loaded with a single shot.

THEN, as competence and gun-awareness and safety become instilled in the shooter, move on to a magazine-load at a time - but NOT ten - just five.

THEN, with confidence in what the noob is doing, comes the introduction to the glass sight - NOT as easy as it sounds, with eye distance and view centering vital parts of using such a sight just as important in their own way as using iron sights.

And then, as the noob gets experiences shooting other peoples guns of different types and actions, they can set the .22 aside on a temporary basis - you will ALWAYS need a .22 [I have seven of 'em] - then is the time to start thinking about what comes next.

That's they way that I was taught, 67 years ago.

Worked for me.

 

[Hueco]

One of my friends also suggested a Savage bolt action. I'm only hesitant since I have to pull a lever every time I want to shoot before pulling the trigger, but I've also never used a gun like that before so it may be more fun then what I am imagining.

My main intention is for plinking but that's just because I'm just getting started. Who knows where this will go! There's so many fun opportunities! A friend also said that .22 can get "boring" relatively quickly (he's also a major gun enthusiast) so just to make sure, regardless you suggest something like a bolt action or rugar 10/22 and then go more intense like an AR?

It's really important that I'm smart about this. I'm really excited and it would be really unfortunate to make a wrong choice. Also, what are your recommendations on a used or new rifle?

I won't forget the other stuff either. Thank you! Do you have a good website in mind that would be good for getting a case and supplies? As well as accessories? Also, any suggestion an specific accessories. If I do get something simple, I'd love to atleast make it look badass.

Lastly, thank you very much for the time you took to write your reply. It is greatly appreciated!

This is why I have both a Ruger 10/22 and a CZ457 (akin to the Savage bolt action).

The 10/22 is fun to plink with, make holes in paper from 50yards in, shoot at multiple targets quickly. But when it comes time to challenge my wife with the battleships target...the 457 comes out. Stupidly accurate right out of the box.

And don't worry about operating a bolt every shot. It does become second nature, you will get faster at it, and at some point...you'll be so in the moment you'll forget you only loaded 5 rounds.

Regarding the "boring-ness" of the .22LR. I would disagree. Personally, I challenge myself to put a round where I want it either faster, tighter, or both. Putting a round further only matters based on round selection. For example, if you did put together a .308 (something I'm doing now) then you'd want to push yourself to shoot accurately out to 300 yards...then 400...and on and on. Some people take it out to 1000.

The .22LR cannot accurately go that far - but you'd be very well challenged to try to keep 5 rounds within a 2inch circle at 100yards. When you can do that, push it out to 125yards and then onto 150. Sure, your friend could cleanly do 125yards with his .223...but that's not exactly apples to apples is it?

For some people, they just always have to shoot further, whether by necessity (hunting ranges) or some internal need (1000yard competitions). But, you can always challenge yourself with small calibers by forcing yourself to either move faster, more accurate, both, and push the limits of the rounds' range.

A lot of words to really just say: the .22LR is fun. It can be made fun and challenging. If you don't think so, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Flymph]

Just be aware that there is a whole quantum leap in cost between the .22 long rifle cartridge and the next centrefire cartridge, for most, the .223 Remington. Sure, you live in the USA where everything is just SOOOOOOOOO cheap compared with the rest of the world, shooting-wise anyhow, but although you might happily blast away a brick of 22 in an afternoon, shooting off 500 rounds of even the cheapest .223 is going to make a noticeable dent in your piggy bank.

Just saying from the experience of watching noobs jonesing over bigger calibre stuff, only to come down to earth with a big bump. Here in UK that can be a VERY painful experience after one of our noobs, happy as a clam with his .22, decided that life for him without a .303 was not worth living. At almost a dollar a shot, that got old pretty fast.

My $0.02.

It's actually worth 4-5 cents... per .22lr round anyway!
5.56 NATO is more like a quarter a pop.
Most other stuff is anywhere from 40 cents to a buck, so there is definite value in that consideration.

 

[tac]

It's actually worth 4-5 cents... per .22lr round anyway!
5.56 NATO is more like a quarter a pop.
Most other stuff is anywhere from 40 cents to a buck, so there is definite value in that consideration.

Ah, but I'm not talking about milsurp 5.56, but commercial factory-made.

 

[eldbillbo]

in case it has not mentioned yet an Ar15 with a .22 conversion kit. This way you can switch from .223 to .22 by switching out bolts and magazines. The problem with this is a conversion kit can almost cost as much as Ruger 10/22 but gives you the option to carry the kit in your rifle case and carry only one rifle with you to suit multiple shooting purposes. If I was to only own 1 rifle that is what I would do because it is actually 2 in 1. For best accuracy out of the .22 conversion, I suggest the 1/12 twist or at least the 1/9 over the 1/7

 

[Flymph]

Ah, but I'm not talking about milsurp 5.56, but commercial factory-made.

Well, if you want fancy bells and whistlers, I suppose it's right up there with the rest of them!

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I might throw out a second rifle suggestion. (First I would recommend is the first rifle I purchased. 10/22.) Ruger 17hmr bolt. Reason being is it is like shooting a tiny laser. They are flat and the gun is supremely accurate.

For rimfire I like the nikon rimfire scopes. I got mine for around $100. Foregrip is an extra I don't find that useful outside of applications unrelated to a .22.

IMO .22 conversion kits are fairly inaccurate, and frustrating. I'd go dedicated and get an AR and several uppers later. AR 15s are still fairly low recoil and easy to shoot.

 

[bbbass]

Ditto to most everything!

I LOVE my Ruger 10/22 with a heavy barrel for shooting ground squirrels and .22 Silhouette competition. It also has a trigger modification, which does help some with accuracy. However, for even better accuracy, go with the Ruger 77-22 a bolt action. Either way, you will have a rifle that you will keep for the rest of your shooting life!!!

That said, it seems you have your heart set on getting a super duper tactical platform. No prob. Get one while you still can... before "they" won't let you buy one anymore.

The PSA option I'm not familiar with that particular .22 cal upper... but I have purchased from PSA and I can verify that they are what I would call "standard" quality in that everybody pretty much is making serviceable AR products today, perhaps oddly enough with the exception of Colt. PSA is not the "best" but they are perfectly useable!!! If one must have the "best", one is going to pay a LOT more.

 

[Kk127001]

Ditto to most everything!

I LOVE my Ruger 10/22 with a heavy barrel for shooting ground squirrels and .22 Silhouette competition. It also has a trigger modification, which does help some with accuracy. However, for even better accuracy, go with the Ruger 77-22 a bolt action. Either way, you will have a rifle that you will keep for the rest of your shooting life!!!

That said, it seems you have your heart set on getting a super duper tactical platform. No prob. Get one while you still can... before "they" won't let you buy one anymore.

The PSA option I'm not familiar with that particular .22 cal upper... but I have purchased from PSA and I can verify that they are what I would call "standard" quality in that everybody pretty much is making serviceable AR products today, perhaps oddly enough with the exception of Colt. PSA is not the "best" but they are perfectly useable!!! If one must have the "best", one is going to pay a LOT more.

Good to know. Thank you for the great information. I am extremely appreciative!. I just added an update to my post with the decision I have made but now I have one new questions regarding it. I'd love it if you could give some input on it and some suggestions.

 

[bbbass]

Good to know. Thank you for the great information. I am extremely appreciative!. I just added an update to my post with the decision I have made but now I have one new questions regarding it. I'd love it if you could give some input on it and some suggestions.

Where's it at?